PNC 11/7/12

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Tonight was the debate between the two candidates for Captain. The candidates were Travis McCrea (current captain) and Lindsay-Anne Brunner.

log:

  • (21:03) <teamcoltra_>I would like to officially call this meeting/debate to order and do a role cal
  • (21:03) <teamcoltra_>call*
  • (21:03) <kusanagi>in a few minutes
  • (21:03) <sacha>What is the moderator channel and I suggest using #uspp-debate to discuss the debates because it looks like uspp is full of other conversation
  • (21:03) <passstab>teamcoltra, thats very convenient
  • (21:03) <passstab>:)
  • (21:04) <teamcoltra_>I switched computers and my other computer seems to be doing better
  • (21:04) <teamcoltra_>so I don't know whats up, but anyway... hopefully this works.
  • (21:04) - teamcoltra quit *(Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  • (21:04) - nicholasdesalvi joined
  • (21:04) - teamcoltra_ is now known as TravisMcCrea
  • (21:04) <kusanagi>Have you tried turning it off and on again?
  • (21:04) - TravisMcCrea left
  • (21:04) - TravisMcCrea joined
  • (21:04) - ChanServ set mode: +o TravisMcCrea
  • (21:05) <mildbeard>how about that, using #uspp-debate for public discussion and use #uspp-mod if you want to direct a question at the moderator.
  • (21:05) - TravisMcCrea left
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  • (21:05) - ChanServ set mode: +o TravisMcCrea
  • (21:05) - TravisMcCrea set mode: +o mildbeard
  • (21:05) <TravisMcCrea>I tried to hop you but this server is stupid
  • (21:05) <sacha>perfect
  • (21:05) <passstab>are candidate not allowed in those channels?
  • (21:05) <mildbeard>ooh, I have an @
  • (21:06) <TravisMcCrea>Since this will be an unconventional meeting, I would like to pass the chair of this meeting to mildbeard
  • (21:06) <TravisMcCrea>any objections?
  • (21:06) <kusanagi>noen
  • (21:06) <kusanagi>none
  • (21:06) - itspara is now known as nicholas
  • (21:06) - nicholasdesalvi is now known as itspara
  • (21:06) <mildbeard>OK thanks.
  • (21:07) - TravisMcCrea set mode: -o TravisMcCrea
  • (21:07) <mildbeard>Does anyone have comments on whether candidates should be allowed in the #uspp-mod channel?
  • (21:07) <kusanagi>!deop
  • (21:07) - ChanServ set mode: -o kusanagi
  • (21:07) <mildbeard>I think they should be allowed in the #uspp-debate channel.
  • (21:08) <passstab>i think they shouldn't be in either -debate or -mod
  • (21:08) <kusanagi>I don't think we should be in mod, but debate is okay
  • (21:08) <kusanagi>there is a drinking game tonight lol
  • (21:08) <CalebLangeslag>Perhaps someone should link to the SAB archive link of the email. :P
  • (21:08) <sacha>I think they can be in debate but not mod
  • (21:08) <TravisMcCrea>Well in Canada *(where mildbeard is said to walk on water) and people know me as the great one... people are allowed to be in #uspp-debate
  • (21:09) <passstab>there should be at a no candidates backchannel
  • (21:09) <TravisMcCrea>*(did I get most of the rounds started?)
  • (21:09) <mildbeard>OK, well they're going to be pretty busy anyway, and I do plan to post the logs. Open, transparent government.
  • (21:09) <kusanagi>yes sir
  • (21:09) - Rab quit *(Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  • (21:09) <mildbeard>If anyone has something private, then they can chat me.
  • (21:10) <mildbeard>OK are both candidates ready to start?
  • (21:10) <TravisMcCrea>yes
  • (21:10) * passstab sets up an unofficial #nocandidates
  • (21:10) <kusanagi>I love the name
  • (21:10) <kusanagi>yes
  • (21:10) <kusanagi>should I use my real name as my handle?
  • (21:11) <mildbeard>You can if you want.
  • (21:11) - kusanagi is now known as LindsayBrunner
  • (21:11) <mildbeard>We should select who goes first. I will flip a coin. Lindsay can call it.
  • (21:12) <mildbeard>It's flipped...heads or tails?
  • (21:12) <LindsayBrunner>tails
  • (21:12) <mildbeard>it was heads.
  • (21:13) <LindsayBrunner>Aw
  • (21:13) <mildbeard>So I want to ask Travis first and then go alternately.
  • (21:13) <mildbeard> 1. What is your vision for the future of the Pirate Party? What direction would you take us in?
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  • (21:14) <mildbeard>answer and let me know when you're done.
  • (21:14) <TravisMcCrea>writing ;)
  • (21:14) <TravisMcCrea>Well there are two parts to my vision for the future of the party. I want to focus our attention locally, not just state-local but city-local. We need to have pirates who are in the same city meeting up with each other, talking and getting involved block by block. True grass roots efforts *(contenued)
  • (21:16) <TravisMcCrea>Though I also want this party to stay strong in it's roots. We are a social democratic party, I have had plenty of conversations with Falkvinge the founder of the Pirate movement and he agrees that there are basic things that our party must stand for, things like healthcare and equality. Taking care of our fellow Americans should be the most patriotic thing we can do and the Pirate Party should not back down from that. We may lose some people who had diff
  • (21:16) <TravisMcCrea>create a solid base of supporters who share a common vision, a vision that is shared by our fellow international pirates.
  • (21:16) <TravisMcCrea>Done
  • (21:16) <mildbeard>Lindsay, same question?
  • (21:18) <LindsayBrunner>My vision for the future of USPP is to try to get more state parties off of the ground, ansd not unlike Travis' view, I agree in having more locally based "crews" to spread the word about us. In turn, those local crews *(divided by electoral district or county) grow the state party, which in turn grows USPP.
  • (21:20) <LindsayBrunner>On the national level though, the PNC needs to work not just bottom-up but both top-down and bottom-up. The current way of how the PNC approaches things doesn't seem to be working.
  • (21:20) <LindsayBrunner>I believe that this approach will help both the States and National active memberships to grow, which in both areas we are lacking.
  • (21:21) <LindsayBrunner>As far as social democracy goes, I do not see how that fits into our constitution at present, so I will not be leading the party in that direction. We are America, not Sweden.
  • (21:21) <LindsayBrunner>finished.
  • (21:21) <TravisMcCrea>Are we going to get to rebut?
  • (21:21) <mildbeard>Travis, any comments on that?
  • (21:21) <mildbeard>yeah but 2 min
  • (21:23) <TravisMcCrea>Yeah, I am curious if her top down vision for the PNC would be like the NYPP which has been fairly inactive for a very long time... especially in such a progressive state. I would also like to point out htat our constituion promotes science based decision making, which is all I am promoting... and the social democracies of the world have shown themselves to be some of the most efficent and make their populations happiest
  • (21:24) <mildbeard>that it?
  • (21:24) <TravisMcCrea>yes sorry
  • (21:24) <mildbeard>Lindsay, any response or rebuttal?
  • (21:26) <LindsayBrunner>yes. NYPP has been mostly inactive because of personal issues both Zac and I have been going through which has interfered with our work. There was a press release posted today, actually. My view for the top down would be simple: we make decisions together for how things should be in the states, and the state reps go back to their fellow members andwork. I also must add that not many state parties have great amounts of memb
  • (21:26) <LindsayBrunner>ers, and that is a necessity for more activity
  • (21:27) <mildbeard>that it?
  • (21:27) <LindsayBrunner>No
  • (21:27) <LindsayBrunner>sorry
  • (21:27) <mildbeard>sorry
  • (21:28) <LindsayBrunner>Policy for the USPP would be decided nationally, then brought back to the states to implement. Hopefully the PNC can come up with more recruitment related materials as well.
  • (21:28) <LindsayBrunner>Done.
  • (21:28) <mildbeard>Immediately after asking the first question I noticed I had skipped the opening statement. So please accept my apologies. Let's do it now.
  • (21:29) <mildbeard>Travis got the first question, so Lindsay... Do you have anything you'd like to say in opening the debate? 5 min.
  • (21:33) <LindsayBrunner>Hah, sure. Well, many of you already know me, I'm the present Administrative Officer of NYPP and current First Officer of the PNC. I believe that how things have been going in USPP aren't doing as well as they should be, and I hope to bring in a fresher look at running the national party. I became involved with NYPP in May of 2010, and became its Operations Officer in January 2011. After a great amount of inactivity, I ste
  • (21:33) <LindsayBrunner>pped up and started leading NYPP in December of last year, and officially took the title of AO in May.
  • (21:33) <LindsayBrunner>jcont
  • (21:35) <LindsayBrunner>I believe I am able to take the role of Captain from my experience leading NYPP, and I look forward to the coming year for USPP/
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  • (21:36) <LindsayBrunner>done
  • (21:36) <QuazarGuy>Jeff Talada, WA
  • (21:36) <mildbeard>Travis? 5 min
  • (21:37) <TravisMcCrea>I think the person going second should have less time, since we also get the same time that the first person had
  • (21:38) <mildbeard>that would be nice ...
  • (21:38) <LindsayBrunner>I took an extra minute
  • (21:38) <LindsayBrunner>you can have that
  • (21:39) <TravisMcCrea>First, I want to thank you all for sticking with me throughout my first term as captain of the PNC. This hasn't been all rainbows and puppies, I know that… I have made mistakes. Some of those I still need to work on, I know that I can be overly confident sometimes. Some of you guys don't like me as a person, I am not the easiest person to get along with.
  • (21:39) <TravisMcCrea>That being said, I have a vision for what this party can be. I live and breathe Pirate Party. I have been involved at every level of this party *(and the movement as a whole), I have been on the streets canvassing *(even organizing NYPPs first canvassing outing); I have run campaigns; I went to PPUK's PirateCon so that I could learn from how successful Pirate Parties are run in FPTP systems; I am involved at a very ideological level helping blog on Rick Fal
  • (21:39) - Brady joined
  • (21:39) <TravisMcCrea> deep convsersations with people about what being a Pirate means.
  • (21:39) <TravisMcCrea>We need to be strong, I want to have a party where we are not taking pot shots at eachother on IRC or elsewhere. I see us as a team, a team that needs to be out there to support each other. I feel I can offer that. However, regardless of anything else -- I am excited for this next year because i am so fucking happy to be a pirate.
  • (21:39) <TravisMcCrea></done>
  • (21:40) <mildbeard>So then I'll ask Travis q2.
  • (21:40) <mildbeard>Actually I think you've both addressed, so q3.
  • (21:40) <mildbeard>3. What do you see as the role of the Captain? Is the Captain the face of the pirate party? What is the Captain's role as a public figure?
  • (21:41) <TravisMcCrea>Can we have the question that we answered?
  • (21:41) <TravisMcCrea>Not to answer just to see ;)
  • (21:41) <mildbeard>2. What do you see as the role of the PNC? What should be the limits of the PNC? In what direction do you think we should move? What do you feel is the role of the USPP in working with the states? What is better left to individual states?
  • (21:43) <TravisMcCrea>Okay Question 3 then - I think that the Captain of this party should be the CEO of the Party, with being a focus on being the face of the Party. The CEO is controlled by the PNC *(in business "the board") but s/he also acts in good faith basd on the mandate of the PNC. The FO should be the COO and handle the operations of the party. The two should be a team.
  • (21:44) <TravisMcCrea>I think the most recent bylaw covers rolls and responsibilities accurately in my view.
  • (21:44) <TravisMcCrea></done>
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  • (21:44) <mildbeard>OK Lindsay?
  • (21:45) <LindsayBrunner>Well, it's defined as the administration role of the PNC as per constitution, but some sort of
  • (21:45) <LindsayBrunner>social role in the bylaws.
  • (21:46) <LindsayBrunner>However, throwing both those aside: I feel the Captain should be an actual leader beside PNC
  • (21:46) <LindsayBrunner>meetings. The Captain will be the person who speaks to media, and will be the face of the United States Pirate Party. That, just in itself, is a major responsibility. We cannot allow someone embroiled in controversy to head out most important position our party has.
  • (21:46) <LindsayBrunner>I don't understand where Mr McCrea is pulling the business references from, this is supposed to be us working all working together.
  • (21:47) <LindsayBrunner>The Captain, inside the party, would be -THE- final person to go to. Just like the POTUS,
  • (21:47) <LindsayBrunner>the buck stops there. The Captain more or less will be held responsible if the USPP crashes
  • (21:47) <LindsayBrunner>and burns or takes off swimmingly, regardless of how things happened.
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  • (21:47) <LindsayBrunner>We need someone to lead, not someone who's awol
  • (21:48) <LindsayBrunner>I've been personally involved in projects the PNC has done, while McCrea works like a shadow, claiming he's too busy to get involved in everything.
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  • (21:49) <LindsayBrunner>I don't think everyone is free enough to get involved in everything, but at least work in public, not behind closed doors.
  • (21:50) <LindsayBrunner>done
  • (21:50) <mildbeard>Travis?
  • (21:50) <TravisMcCrea>How could Liz *(Ms Brunner?) say on one hand that decisions need to go through the Captain and that the buck stops with them, but then also say that they should be only a mouthpiece of the party and not get engaged in the politics. It's true, I believe that it's the captain's role to not be in the drama, but that's the reason why decision making should be done by the decision makers *(the PNC) and the Captain should simply support the work that the party i
  • (21:52) <TravisMcCrea>DOes that mean the captain can't be involved in helping the party draft bylaws, be part of different committees? No, of course not. However, at least for me -- I have tried to just let the committees do their thing. When they ask for my help, I provide it. I was asked to help out with a press release today, so I provided input. I have given my input on the new site design. However, if everyone can create a committee at will, and I want people to feel emp
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  • (21:52) <TravisMcCrea>to feel they need to come have me hold their hand or give them my permission.
  • (21:53) <TravisMcCrea>When you are working on a single project, then yes it may seem that I am not doing much. However, I am participating every committee and group in the party... When you ned help, just ask.
  • (21:53) <TravisMcCrea>As Liz said, the Captain should stay out of the drama and such -- and just act to support the party.
  • (21:53) <TravisMcCrea></done>
  • (21:54) <mildbeard>Travis, it looks like your answers are getting cut off. Please put them in smaller chunks.
  • (21:54) <mildbeard>Lindsay, response?
  • (21:54) <TravisMcCrea>mildbeard: anything in particular that got cut off?
  • (21:54) <mildbeard>simply support the work that the party i
  • (21:55) <mildbeard>, and I want people to feel emp
  • (21:55) <TravisMcCrea>party is doing ...
  • (21:55) <TravisMcCrea>feel empowered to take action on their own, I don't want them
  • (21:55) <TravisMcCrea>*(were the ends of those two lines for the record)
  • (21:58) <mildbeard>Waiting for a rebuttal from Lindsay.
  • (21:58) <LindsayBrunner>Actually, if I recall correctly, the bylaws state that the captain handles member disputes, so the captain's role as of now is partially handling drama. I did not say the captain should be involved in that, either, you're drawing a false conclusion. I also did not say that the Captain is just a mouthpiece, I said the captain should be an actual leader, as well as our media person.
  • (21:59) <TravisMcCrea>Sorry I misread: "We cannot allow someone embroiled in controversy to head out most important position our party has." ?
  • (22:00) <mildbeard>TravisMcCrea, please don't interrupt.
  • (22:01) <LindsayBrunner>You didn't just give input on the press release this afternoon, you were nearly a tyrant in arguing about social democratic views and stating that you were the chief person of press. "Embroiled in controversy" refers to TUEBL and your problems with author Dakota Cassidy and others.
  • (22:01) <LindsayBrunner>Calling others who may not like our views "backwoods" and "deranged" are deplorable.
  • (22:02) <LindsayBrunner>done.
  • (22:02) <mildbeard>I am not calling time or anything, but both of you are going over the amount of time. This is important, but I also want to get to more questions.
  • (22:02) <mildbeard>Lindsay, what are your greatest strengths and weaknesses? And what do you think is the biggest difference between you and your opponent?
  • (22:02) <TravisMcCrea>mildbeard:
  • (22:03) <TravisMcCrea>meh I wont bother replying.
  • (22:03) <LindsayBrunner>I'm sorry, slow typing tonight.
  • (22:04) <LindsayBrunner>My greatest strengths are being adaptable and learning quickly. I have no problems adjusting to different situations and can make major decisions swiftly and with ease. My biggest weakness, probably indecisiveness when it comes to smaller issues.
  • (22:05) <LindsayBrunner>The biggest difference between Mr McCrea and myself? probably how we see the party's goals and views
  • (22:05) <LindsayBrunner>done
  • (22:05) <mildbeard>Travis, same question? 2 min.
  • (22:06) <TravisMcCrea>Liz and I have major differences in the methods which we would like to use to be chair of this party. My vision is one of solidarity, and a party where we work together. Liz's history includes becoming leader of NYPP and then kicking out / banning the previous guy.
  • (22:06) <TravisMcCrea>I don't think we should be banning anyone from our party, and we should be using our differences as strengths.
  • (22:06) <TravisMcCrea>I hate even highlighting the differences between Liz and I because she is such a great person
  • (22:07) <TravisMcCrea>and I think all the pot shots and bickering is only hurting this party.
  • (22:08) <TravisMcCrea>Weaknesses? I have a lot of them. However, I am also willing to learn from them, and try to make them better. I might always be an arrogant ass, but maybe I can be better at controlling it.
  • (22:08) <TravisMcCrea>done
  • (22:08) <mildbeard>Lindsay, 1 min for a response.
  • (22:09) <LindsayBrunner>Mr Emerson also gave our sites away, and did nothing for the party, then claiming we all supported Occupy Wall Street and Occupy Marines. If anything, he needed to be removed for abusing the party name in such a way. You say that we shouldn't be making pot-shots, but you just did that.. Emerson is also an anarchist.
  • (22:10) <LindsayBrunner>he was extremely damaging to NYPP and now it's starting to flourish.
  • (22:10) <LindsayBrunner>In fact, we're running a local candidate next year.
  • (22:11) <LindsayBrunner>That would have never happened otherwise.
  • (22:11) <LindsayBrunner>done
  • (22:11) <mildbeard>Travis, 1 min?
  • (22:12) <TravisMcCrea>I will only say that I believe that every person should have a view. Also just a reminder to the PNC that we are only reading two viewpoints of a situation both equally biased.
  • (22:13) <TravisMcCrea>*(done, btw)
  • (22:13) <mildbeard>OK then next question to Travis.
  • (22:14) <mildbeard>What do we have going for us that the Greens, Libertarians and other parties don't? How can we be the party that beats "winner take all" elections? How do we go from being a third party to a first party?
  • (22:15) <TravisMcCrea>Before I came back to the USPP we seemed to be going on a path of a strong national USPP. This was the same mistake that we had made before, and I hoped to fix it. Now most of the PNC agree that we need to be focusing on the states and on local elections. Obviously the Greens have the dissadvantage that people have been voting against them for 30 years but
  • (22:15) <TravisMcCrea>but also the Pirate Party is going to prove that our policies work on a local level.
  • (22:16) <TravisMcCrea>We are going to get city council members elected, get school boards and courts and what not and influence policy bottom up. The cool thing about our country is that we could take a majority government in a city council, and institute things like proportional representation or whatnot.
  • (22:17) <TravisMcCrea>I think that once we are able to show the world our policies in action, and it's only going to take that one election... we will snowball to success. The United States can have 3 parties in a FPTP system, all the other FPTP countries have 3+ parties.
  • (22:17) <TravisMcCrea>I think we also need to encourage other parties. If there is a strong conservative district, and we only have 20 pirates there... then having them help the constitutional party win a seat is still helping getting minor parties on the ballot and in seats.
  • (22:18) <TravisMcCrea>We need to say "Pirates Can Win" and any person of a minor party who wins a seat gives confidence to the voter that their vote wont be wasted on a third party
  • (22:19) <TravisMcCrea>This has been my vision from day one and I have spent hours on the phone with differnet parties asking htem how I can help, they all have my number. Every time when a person gets on IRC and says they want to start a party in their area I help them look up the laws and regulations
  • (22:19) <TravisMcCrea>Let them know they have a friend here and that we can do this together.
  • (22:19) <TravisMcCrea>That's how the Pirate Party will succeed
  • (22:19) <TravisMcCrea><done>
  • (22:19) <mildbeard>Lindsay, same question?
  • (22:20) <LindsayBrunner>Mr McCrea is right, we need to first work on a local level, which right now is one of the major things going for us. We can work with other parties to bring in better styles of representation. We're also the party of the Internet, younger people like us, and we have worldwide support literally just a click away. The Greens and Libs didn't have that when they started, so we're fully able to at least TRY what other countries
  • (22:20) <LindsayBrunner>' Pirates did. To win, we would NEED to work with other parties, like the Greens and Libs.
  • (22:21) <LindsayBrunner>It won't be one election, it very well may be a few, but with significant effort, it is completely attainable for the Pirate Party to become a major party. it's not something that will happen overnight, it will take a lot of effort from a lot of people.
  • (22:22) <LindsayBrunner>I would like to see the creation of regional Pirate alliances to help with canvassing and campaigning. It's something MAPP has done in NH.
  • (22:22) <LindsayBrunner>We're all in this together, that's for sure.
  • (22:23) <LindsayBrunner>done
  • (22:23) <mildbeard>Travis, any comments?
  • (22:23) <mildbeard>you can respond to anything else too
  • (22:24) <TravisMcCrea>I don't think this question is very controversial. Pirates will be sucessful.
  • (22:24) <TravisMcCrea>I just feel my plan is best to get us there.
  • (22:24) <TravisMcCrea>done
  • (22:25) <mildbeard>Lindsay, any comments on this or another question?
  • (22:25) <LindsayBrunner>I agree in the nature of the question with Mr McCrea, but I disagree with his plan.
  • (22:26) <LindsayBrunner>done
  • (22:26) <mildbeard>OK I think that brings us to the town hall portion of the debate.
  • (22:27) <mildbeard>I will take questions from several people who are not participating in the debate.
  • (22:27) <mildbeard>I sent out an email with suggestions from some of the people who sent me questions.
  • (22:27) <mildbeard>The idea is you get to ask a direct question of one of the candidates.
  • (22:27) <passstab> /join #uspp-mod
  • (22:27) <mildbeard>They will have 2 minutes to reply and the other candidate gets 2 min to comment.
  • (22:28) <mildbeard>If you ask on #uspp-mod then I will call on you. or you can PM me.
  • (22:28) <mildbeard>The first question goes to sacha.
  • (22:28) <sacha>Sweet
  • (22:29) <mildbeard>you have 1 min.
  • (22:29) <sacha>First one is for Travis, do you plan for us to stick to our Falkvinge roots or do you see the USPP forming their own unique identity?
  • (22:30) <TravisMcCrea>I feel they are based in our Swedish roots, that's why we became pirates. If that wasn't the reason then we have to say "oh we liked the name and never researched what the movement is about"
  • (22:30) <TravisMcCrea>That being said, America has it's own unique set of challenges that we must overcome. I am not saying let's all pray to Falkvinge his holliness
  • (22:31) <TravisMcCrea>I am saying that using the Pirate Wheel as a commonly accepted base of who we are gives us an identity to build off of and allows us to keep a strong base, and not make the mistake other parties have made by pandering to inflate their numbers
  • (22:31) <TravisMcCrea></done>
  • (22:31) <mildbeard>Lindsay, any comments on this question?
  • (22:32) <LindsayBrunner>Yes, though I agree with much of the Pirate Wheel, I feel that we will wind up forming our own identity, as each country has done for the most part.
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  • (22:33) <LindsayBrunner>Other countries' parties have taken the wheel, remixed it a bit, and used their version of that to work, as each area will have different needs and problems to conquer
  • (22:33) <LindsayBrunner>done
  • (22:33) <mildbeard>The next question goes to passstab
  • (22:33) <mildbeard>You have to ask a specific candidate
  • (22:34) <passstab>why?
  • (22:34) <mildbeard>It's part of the format. the other candidate also comments.
  • (22:34) <passstab>how do you important do you feel software freedom is to the party? LindsayBrunner
  • (22:36) <LindsayBrunner>It's important, most assuredly. I believe that the government should be using F/LOSS, and that voting machines and their software do not deserve to be trade secrets. There is no reason for gambling machines out of all things to be highly regulated while voting machings are pretty much anything goes.
  • (22:36) <LindsayBrunner>As for level of importance, I would say it's medium-high importance.
  • (22:37) <LindsayBrunner>son
  • (22:37) <LindsayBrunner>done
  • (22:37) <mildbeard>Travis, same question to you?
  • (22:37) <TravisMcCrea>There is no escaping that probably 90% of us are nerds, and also come from the libre culture movement so free software obviously is an important idea to promote. However, I don't think this is the RMS *(Richard Stallman) Party -- and free software is great, when it works.
  • (22:37) <TravisMcCrea>We should be promoting government use F/LOSS but I also think that pragmatism is a big part of our party as well and we shouldn't go without something important just because we can't use GPL software
  • (22:37) <TravisMcCrea></done>
  • (22:38) <mildbeard>The next question comes from OrionSteele.
  • (22:38) <OrionSteele>ok i have a question for Linday, but i want to say that both sides have made good arguments during this debate
  • (22:39) <mildbeard>agreed
  • (22:39) <OrionSteele>Lindsay: My question relates to what sort of resources will be used to help support state parties. There are 2 things that stick out in my mind about Travis: First, he has quit his job to do pirate party stuff and has committed a lot of time and money to travel to other parties and help local groups personally
  • (22:40) <OrionSteele>Second, he has some personal connections that have helped our personal state *(like reaching out to cory doctorow and falkvinge to talk to us). do you have a response to this or can you say anything about your specific resources to help individual states?
  • (22:42) <LindsayBrunner>Thanks, Orion. despite quitting his job, he doesn't seem to be doing much in the form of actual leadership. We need the leadership to provide the structure, not a personality-driven force. I am able to commit the time, money is a slight issue right now but I expect that to change soon.
  • (22:43) <LindsayBrunner>He's been asked to help out with the Idaho Pirates, and has not provided any names, despite claiming he had.
  • (22:44) <LindsayBrunner>I'm not a writer for Falkvinge, but I know him as well. I'm sure if I asked he would be more than willing to give information and resources.
  • (22:44) <LindsayBrunner>I've devoted a lot of time as well to the party, and my fiance can vouch for that.
  • (22:45) <LindsayBrunner>done
  • (22:45) <mildbeard>Travis, any comments?
  • (22:46) <TravisMcCrea>This question was about what we can provide and it obviously touched on what I have already done to help... I want to connect people and use my resources. I can travel at will, help people whenever. I think the fact that Liz is a mom is a wonderful thing and I am glad that she is able to support, but I am always available at a moments notice.
  • (22:47) <TravisMcCrea>While liz can bring a lot to the table, I don't think her answer highlighted what she could bring that I can't
  • (22:47) <TravisMcCrea></done>
  • (22:47) <mildbeard>Next question goes to sacha. Then I will ask the following one on behalf of someone who's not here.
  • (22:48) <sacha>okay
  • (22:48) <sacha>My question is for Liz
  • (22:48) <sacha>Liz, you have said that you want to incorporate top-down structure with the PNC
  • (22:48) <sacha>what specific and concrete plans do you have to do that or are you still planning?
  • (22:50) <LindsayBrunner>I want to introduce policy working groups, for starters.
  • (22:50) <LindsayBrunner>a lot of us are unsure where we stand on many things, and having a working group will provide a top-down policy, to go back to state level
  • (22:51) <LindsayBrunner>another thing I would like to do is organize a national cavassing day. if the states choose, we could go out in force and talk to people offline, as there's only so much we can do behind a computer screen.
  • (22:52) <LindsayBrunner>Again, nothing here would be forced, but it would create a united front for the states to adopt similar policies.
  • (22:53) <LindsayBrunner>I would also like to see regional coalitions created, which would organize an effort in a specific region and help the less-able states.
  • (22:53) <LindsayBrunner>Last, I would set up a structure for funding these projects.
  • (22:54) <LindsayBrunner>My current proposal is that a yearly "donation" would be given by member states to be used toward these projects and helping state parties come online.
  • (22:54) <LindsayBrunner>done
  • (22:54) <mildbeard>Travis?
  • (22:55) <TravisMcCrea>Unless her policy has changed, I was told my efforts on the Buffalo Pirate Party *(where we hold weekly in-person meetings and have fliers put up around Buffalo) would be excluded from the New York Pirate Party if I didn't come to their IRC meetings. Because I want to be bold and try my own method, I am being punished. I can't help but think this would be applied to the national party as well.
  • (22:55) <TravisMcCrea>*(yes I said be bold, take a drink)
  • (22:56) <TravisMcCrea>I might need to have a little more strength as a leader, instead of simply representing the party, but this seems like a stiffling of innovation and individual development.
  • (22:56) <TravisMcCrea>Which might hurt the USPP
  • (22:56) <TravisMcCrea></done>
  • (22:57) <mildbeard>I will ask the next question from the list on email.
  • (22:57) <mildbeard>travis, why should we elect you Captain even though you are from another country? And if elected, will you step down from y our post in the Canada PP?
  • (22:58) <TravisMcCrea>I am not from another country, I was born in the United States, I am an American. When I took my role as Captain of the United States Pirate Party I stepped down in Canada.
  • (22:58) <TravisMcCrea>The only position I still have is more of an honorary one which makes me their international representative, since I also participate actively in PPI
  • (22:59) <TravisMcCrea>I don't believe I will step down as their international representative, unless required. I am also not going to stop helping Canadians just because I am the Captain of the Pirate Party, in a month or so I am going to Toronto to help them start up Ontario Pirates.
  • (22:59) <TravisMcCrea>We are all in this together.
  • (23:00) <TravisMcCrea>However, if anything gets in my way of being an effective leader of this party... I would resign in a heartbeat... because it's my passion to help this party.
  • (23:00) <TravisMcCrea></done>
  • (23:00) <mildbeard>Lindsay, an comments?
  • (23:01) - Roderick joined
  • (23:02) <LindsayBrunner>Well, the question bears asking, if you're going to be hopping all over and creating more Pirate Parties outside the US, how will Travis be able to handle that, the burden of PPI AND being captain? In response to Travis' previous comment, he wanted to use NYPP resources for a group that would not benefit NYPP, and make it harder to unite Western New York and the New York City metro area.
  • (23:02) <LindsayBrunner>done
  • (23:03) <mildbeard>I believe sacha has one.
  • (23:03) <TravisMcCrea>may I ask one real fast
  • (23:03) <sacha>Okay so my question is about how to deal with creation of content in the PP
  • (23:03) <TravisMcCrea>which follow ups with this one?
  • (23:03) <sacha>Well um I am okay with that if you want mildbeard
  • (23:04) <mildbeard>sacha it's your turn.
  • (23:04) <sacha>Okay then I will go
  • (23:05) <sacha>Liz, how much flexibility will you give to people who want to create content. Do you favor a strict or more flexible hierarchy of power?
  • (23:07) <LindsayBrunner>I plan on giving a great amount of flexibility, but with restrictions of the "brand name" of USPP to keep a consistent and professional message
  • (23:07) <LindsayBrunner>Policies should be CC0, so anyone else can adopt them
  • (23:08) <LindsayBrunner>for other stuff, CC-BY so USPP is attributed to the work.
  • (23:09) <LindsayBrunner>I want as many people to contribute as possible, bu twe will need standards or a guideline so the name doesn't get diluted or abused.
  • (23:09) <LindsayBrunner>donew
  • (23:09) <mildbeard>OK Travis, any comment on this question?
  • (23:10) <TravisMcCrea>Liz and I agree on having a very liberal process for content creation while ensuring restrictions are put on content to protect our brand -- recently I appointed 5 individuals who can each *(without needing additional approval) approve content for the USPP site. I think adding layers of red tape while we are this young discourages innovation and participation.
  • (23:10) <TravisMcCrea>Done.
  • (23:10) <mildbeard>Travis has requested to ask Lindsay a direct question. I am going to allow it, but in fairness I will next give Lindsay an opportunity to ask him a direct question, if she likes.
  • (23:10) <mildbeard>Travis, ask away.
  • (23:11) - OyajiVyse quit *(Quit: Leaving)
  • (23:11) <TravisMcCrea>Liz asked the question of me being able to ballance my responsibilities in the PPI and as leader of the party. Do you plan to step down as leader of NYPP if you win chair? As you will soon have a job, have a child, AND are both the leader of NYPP and the PNC?
  • (23:14) <LindsayBrunner>I did. No, at present I do not plan to step down from my position as Administrative Officer of NYPP. I have been able in the past to balance a full-time job, a full-time course load at college, and my son, and NYPP is extremely flexible and substantially less work than even one course in school.
  • (23:15) - Rush quit *(Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  • (23:15) <LindsayBrunner>I will be more than able to adjust and schedule to work on PNC matters, NYPP matters, and any other personal items that may be arising.
  • (23:16) <LindsayBrunner>Done.
  • (23:16) <mildbeard>Travis, any comments?
  • (23:16) <TravisMcCrea>but to be clear, I would not be able to handle a one every couple of month trip to Toronto to have a meeting with fellow pirates? Even though I work full time for the Pirate Party?
  • (23:17) <TravisMcCrea>I guess thats more rhetorical.
  • (23:18) <TravisMcCrea>It's not my intention to sling mud, I just feel this was an important fact. I admire the amount of work Liz does.
  • (23:18) <TravisMcCrea></done>
  • (23:18) <mildbeard>Lindsay, do you have a direct question you would like to ask Travis?
  • (23:18) <LindsayBrunner>I'm trying to word it more clearly
  • (23:18) <mildbeard>ok np
  • (23:21) <LindsayBrunner>It seems you tended to focus on the western european pirates in many things, so would you be planning to work with Pirates from Eastern Europe *(ie Poland, Russia) and in the Pacific?
  • (23:21) <LindsayBrunner>Especially the Pacific, with TPP impending
  • (23:22) <TravisMcCrea>My focus is building relationships with other FPTP nations. I am already close with Loz Kay of PPUK and I call the leader of PPCA one of my best friends... I want to do more to reach out to Australia, I know that their delegates and myself don't always see eye to eye
  • (23:23) <TravisMcCrea>With TPP and such we certainly need to be building those friendships and doing joint campaigns
  • (23:23) <TravisMcCrea>Once we have the new website it will make it much easier to make pages and do campaigns and blog posts all from the site
  • (23:24) <TravisMcCrea>So yes, I want to work with all countries including ones who we have immediate interest in having relationships with
  • (23:24) <TravisMcCrea>but I think the most important bonds are the long term ones with other FPTP countries
  • (23:24) <TravisMcCrea></done>
  • (23:24) <mildbeard>Lindsay, any comments?
  • (23:25) <TravisMcCrea>Also as a member of PPI I usually learn about these international issues faster than most other people, which is an advantage to our party.
  • (23:25) <LindsayBrunner>mildbeard, are you to allow that addition comment?
  • (23:26) <mildbeard>I'm going to ignore it. It's now your turn to comment.
  • (23:27) <LindsayBrunner>Anyway, I'm not sure if Travis realizes that TPP negotiations are on the verge of closing and that much of the opportunity to work together on that is gone.
  • (23:27) <LindsayBrunner>If it is even still a possibility.
  • (23:27) - passstab quit *(Remote host closed the connection)
  • (23:28) <LindsayBrunner>If you found out about TPP faster than others, as it is an international issue, there is no reason for inaction on the matter. It's simply unacceptable.
  • (23:28) <LindsayBrunner>done
  • (23:28) <mildbeard>OK that brings us to closing statements.
  • (23:29) <mildbeard>Travis won the initial coin flip and got to go first earlier, so Lindsay will make the first closing statement.
  • (23:29) <LindsayBrunner>sure
  • (23:29) <mildbeard>Lindsay, please feel free to say anything you want. You have 5 min.
  • (23:33) <LindsayBrunner>In closing, I would like to thank everyone for coming and to thank my opponent, Travis, for the great debate. I hope you all are more able to see our differences now. We need strong leadership to provide the structure we need right now to grow this party further. At least to me, we need a major overhaul in the PNC. I don't want to see this party fail again. I have invested a lot of time into NYPP and the PNC, and want this
  • (23:33) <LindsayBrunner> to succeed as much as everyone.
  • (23:34) <LindsayBrunner>Being the captain is not something I take lightly at all, and I would be truly honored to be in that position.
  • (23:35) <LindsayBrunner>I hope all of you vote based on issues, and for cliques.
  • (23:35) <LindsayBrunner>not for cliques
  • (23:36) <LindsayBrunner>Regardless, 2013 will be a big year for the USPP, and I hope to lead it into a new chapter that starts off with a bang.
  • (23:36) <LindsayBrunner>done
  • (23:36) <mildbeard>Travis, closing statement 5 min.
  • (23:40) <TravisMcCrea>As you can see this is an important election and there are stark differences between Liz and myself. I know at points tonight I have come across as "mud slinging" and that makes me sad because I want nothing more than to have a united party.
  • (23:40) <TravisMcCrea>However, stating those differences was not intended to be a slinging of mud, but rather a presentation of facts that I believe to be true, and me leaving it up to you to decide.
  • (23:40) <TravisMcCrea>This party means everything to me, I moved back to the United States, I left my job, and I did everything I could to make this party better.
  • (23:40) <TravisMcCrea>I don't want your state's vote because you feel bad that I am so invested in this party, and vote for me with pitty though. I want you to vote for me because I have shown my dedication, I contenue to show it…
  • (23:40) <TravisMcCrea>When I get overly defensive over the party, it's not the yells of a spoiled child who had someone else play with his bricks. They are more likened to a parent who is being over protective. This party means everything to me and I just want whats best for it.
  • (23:40) <TravisMcCrea>There are other candidates who I would have loved to see people vote for -- our moderator being one of them. Since they did not run, I promise in my next term to listen to them more. Consult with them. Learn what they are doing right so I can do that too.
  • (23:40) <TravisMcCrea>I have a vision for this party, many of the things we believe as a party today are based on suggestions that I made when I returned to this new incarnation of the party. I want to share this journey with you guys *(my best friends and colleges).
  • (23:41) <TravisMcCrea>We are all in this together, and I plan on making 2013 the year that we put pirates on the map.
  • (23:41) <TravisMcCrea>Let's kick ass guys. #VotePirate #argh
  • (23:41) <TravisMcCrea></done>
  • (23:41) <mildbeard>OK that concludes the organized debate. I'd like to thank both participants for generally adhering to the rules...
  • (23:42) <mildbeard>...and thank everyone else for doing a remarkable job of respecting the rules and not talking over the candidates...
  • (23:42) <TravisMcCrea>What good is a debate if we don't make the rules... guidelines... especialy in the Pirate Party.
  • (23:42) <TravisMcCrea>Thank you mildbeard for moderating you were fair and awesome.
  • (23:42) <mildbeard>thanks
  • (23:42) <LindsayBrunner>Yes, thank you, Erik.
  • (23:43) <mildbeard>thanks to you as well