PNC 8/29/12

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08/29/2012 21:00h EDT
Room: #pnc


Members of the PNC

  • Kyle Devore, OR
  • Zacqary Adam Green/Daniel Gorski, NY
  • Erik Zoltan, MA
  • Bradley Hall, FL
  • Joseph T. Klein, WI
  • Mitch Tuck, GA

  • None
  • California
  • Washington

  • Oklahoma, 7th week

At Large Members of the PNC

  • Benjamin Sauerhaft Coplon, PA
  • Nicholas De Salvio, MD
  • Caleb Langeslag, MN
  • Cullen Matthews, IL

Officers of the PNC

  • Travis McCrea, Washington, Captain
  • Lindsay-Anne Brunner, NY, First Mate
  • Amanda Johnson, MI, Acting Quartermaster as requested by Jeff Talada


  • Meeting opened at: 09:06pm EDT by Travis McCrea
  • Meeting closed at: 11:01pm EDT by Travis McCrea
  • Meeting chaired by Travis McCrea
  • Secretary for this meeting is Amanda Johnson
  • Quorum is established: Members 6 out of 8 present
  • Logging Enabled: Yes

Review of previous minutes


Short report of the board members

  • Tabling at the freedom Rally
  • Moving beyond Alpha testing for Liquid Feedback
  • Still looking for a new treasurer
  • Absent
  • Attempting to reach out to people on facebook
  • No update
  • getting essays for NSH2
New York
  • Building a platform specific to NY.
  • Building membership
  • Are in talks with the Green Party of Bronx County about working together on a potential project.
  • Absent
  • Taking a look at their demographics, the demographic is largely millenials
  • Desiging a pamphlet for events

Short Report From Committees

IT Committee
  • Working on a voting system for elections
Bylaws Committee
  • Still working on the proposal
Convention Committee
  • Planning on it being web based

Agenda Items

  • Who is the PNC endorsing for POTUS?
    • We will leave this up to the states
  • State of AGPPP
    • They are working with MI, CA, and IL


  • A suggested amendment to the PNC constitution Article IV Section Two: Eligibility
    • Issue tabled for next week

  • Motion to adjourn meeting
    • 4 ayes, Meeting adjourned
  • PiratePAC and UC - SKIPPED
  • Should PNC provide voter tools? Online voter registration? Polling place lookup? Candidate info? -SKIPPED

  • Next meeting: Wednesday, September 6 at 9PM EDT
  • Meeting closed: 11:01pm


[18:02:48] teamcoltra: Hello everyone

[18:02:57] kusanagi: sup

[18:02:58] MrSquared: greetings!

[18:03:07] teamcoltra: Sacha are you here?

[18:03:08] Sacha: Hiya

[18:03:13] teamcoltra: as if on queue

[18:03:20] Deamon: cue*

[18:03:26] teamcoltra: and on cue

[18:03:30] Deamon: sorry, drama nerd

[18:03:38] teamcoltra: She could have been in a line

[18:03:46] teamcoltra: which would have made her on queue as well :)

[18:03:53] Sacha: I am totally in a line

[18:04:03] �Kos� ( joined the channel.

[18:04:04] Deamon: you are definately a politican :P

[18:04:10] �Kos� ( left IRC. (Client Quit)

[18:04:12] �passstab� (~emily@xx.pirate) joined the channel.

[18:04:21] teamcoltra: It's 17:04 EST I call the meeting to order

[18:04:26] Zacqary: Hay gize

[18:04:32] teamcoltra: Sacha is keeping the log

[18:04:36] teamcoltra: err minutes

[18:05:01] teamcoltra: Let's do roll call

[18:05:17] kusanagi: Lindsay-Anne Brunner, NY, FM

[18:05:18] Deamon: James Eastman Jr., Michigan

[18:05:38] CullenMatthews: Cullen Matthews, IL

[18:05:43] MrSquared: Kyle DeVore, OR

[18:05:44] passstab: kbenjamin sauerhaft coplon, PA

[18:05:49] Sacha: Amanda Johnson, Mi

[18:06:02] Zacqary: Zacqary Adam Green, NY

[18:06:30] teamcoltra: Is it Zacqary or kusanagi who will be representing NY?

[18:06:36] kusanagi: zac is

[18:06:39] �teamcoltra� sets mode �+v Zacqary�

[18:06:43] �teamcoltra� sets mode �+v MrSquared�

[18:07:14] �mildbeard� ( joined the channel.

[18:07:18] teamcoltra: We are still short on quorum, though we have a lot of people here

[18:07:32] �teamcoltra� sets mode �+v mildbeard�

[18:07:44] mildbeard: Erik Zoltan, Massachusetts

[18:07:54] teamcoltra: We need one more

[18:07:59] teamcoltra: Rush are you near your keyboard?

[18:08:21] CalebLangeslag: Caleb Langeslag, MN

[18:08:22] �Kos� ( joined the channel.

[18:10:16] teamcoltra: listens to the jeapordy theme song as we wait

[18:10:18] kusanagi: plays the jeopardy song

[18:10:20] kusanagi: LOL

[18:10:26] itspara: Nicholas De Salvio, MD

[18:10:34] kusanagi: that just happened.

[18:10:35] kusanagi: lol

[18:10:48] Deamon: simulthink

[18:10:58] kusanagi: get outz of mah brains

[18:11:00] Sacha: I am asking CA

[18:11:02] Sacha: if they are in

[18:11:07] teamcoltra: I was just calling Orion

[18:11:11] teamcoltra: err I am calling

[18:11:12] Sacha: so give it a second and i'll see if I can grab them

[18:11:16] Sacha: I am asking matt so go ahead

[18:11:31] teamcoltra: I am calling Georgia next

[18:11:35] �Bosun� ( joined the channel.

[18:11:53] Bosun: Sorry I'm late.

[18:12:00] �teamcoltra� sets mode �+v Bosun�

[18:12:11] Sacha: passtab is your name kbenjamin or just benjamin?

[18:12:40] Rush: Aye, FL's here

[18:12:44] Rush: Bradley Hall, FL

[18:12:54] Bosun: Joseph T. Klein Wisconsin

[18:12:56] teamcoltra: matuck_ is coming too

[18:12:59] �teamcoltra� sets mode �+v Rush�

[18:13:01] passstab: kbenjamin

[18:13:36] teamcoltra: Okay but perfect so we now have an acceptable number of people here

[18:13:52] teamcoltra: Please review tonights agenda and last weeks minutes

[18:15:06] Zacqary: Looks gooood

[18:15:10] Deamon: Good

[18:15:14] kusanagi: yep

[18:15:45] mildbeard: looks fine here too

[18:15:56] teamcoltra: llol I guess I should open it myself

[18:16:01] MrSquared: looks fine

[18:16:10] Sacha: Teamcoltra will you identify as other officers did as well? So that I can grab the state

[18:16:11] matuck_: mitch tuck ga

[18:16:19] Rush: Fine

[18:16:43] teamcoltra: Sacha I don't represent a state

[18:17:01] Sacha: Teamcoltra You are not part of any state?

[18:17:13] teamcoltra: I am a member of the Washington Pirate Party

[18:17:17] teamcoltra: but I don't represent them

[18:17:24] Sacha: Okay, that is what I was asking

[18:17:42] Sacha: Liz is not representing NY but it is still on the log, thank you for helping me out ^_^

[18:17:57] kusanagi: Force of habit, soz

[18:18:36] teamcoltra: Actually, not to sound rude, but for the record you are not an officer of the PNC.

[18:19:04] teamcoltra: Okay

[18:19:08] Sacha: Kusanagi, no I approve since the whole point of identifying is so people know where you are from and who you are

[18:19:24] Sacha: Das okay, it didn't make sense to put me in at large so I just made a new category for me

[18:19:38] Sacha: Sorry for all ze interruptions

[18:19:50] teamcoltra: I actually disagree, we have no bylaw requiring a state from the officers. However, I am willing to just go with the flow so we can carry on.

[18:20:13] Sacha: Okay

[18:20:28] teamcoltra: mildbeard can you give Massachusetts report?

[18:21:07] mildbeard: Our big upcoming event is the "Freedom Rally" which is a cannabis legalization rally. We have a nice vendor table and it's a big opportunity for MAPP.

[18:21:28] mildbeard: Our liquid feedback testing is at a stage where we're going to move beyond the alpha testing part.

[18:21:54] mildbeard: We are still looking for a new treasurer. Our main people are a bit overtasked.

[18:22:01] mildbeard: And that's all for Massachusetts.

[18:22:05] teamcoltra: Sweet

[18:22:06] teamcoltra: Thanks

[18:22:15] teamcoltra: Washington isn't here

[18:22:20] teamcoltra: Oregon / MrSquared

[18:22:43] teamcoltra: (ps matuck_ if you are around, you will be up next)

[18:23:06] MrSquared: I've been working on and off on getting a facebook page up. It is currently up, but there is no content or likes

[18:23:08] MrSquared:

[18:23:12] �itspara� ( left IRC. (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)

[18:23:46] MrSquared: Also, I am attempting to reach out to the people in our FB group (almost 350 of them) to organize a meeting on G+ Hangouts

[18:23:52] teamcoltra: lol you were not kidding, you didn't even like the page yourself ;)

[18:24:03] MrSquared: but so far it's just me and Jorden

[18:24:16] MrSquared: haha whoops

[18:24:23] �itspara� (~AndChat64@69.255.xyx.lw) joined the channel.

[18:24:35] MrSquared: and that is it

[18:24:42] teamcoltra: Well progress is progress

[18:24:55] teamcoltra: matuck_ are you around?

[18:25:01] matuck_: I havnt talked to jarod in a week or so ... I dont really have an update for GA

[18:25:10] teamcoltra: :) No problem

[18:25:13] �teamcoltra� sets mode �+v MrSquared�

[18:25:20] �teamcoltra� sets mode �+v matuck_�

[18:25:36] teamcoltra: Florida / Rush

[18:26:04] Rush: Florida is doing well. We just started getting essays for NSH2. I haven't been able to read through them yet, but they look good.

[18:26:08] Rush: That is all

[18:27:13] teamcoltra: Thanks rush

[18:27:33] teamcoltra: You and your members all handled the storms well?

[18:27:58] Rush: Most of Florida didn't get much of it

[18:28:11] Rush: Where I am, we got like, 20 minutes of rain per day

[18:28:24] Rush: but it's fits and sprts

[18:28:26] Rush: spurts

[18:28:37] teamcoltra: :) That's thankful. Better than overflowing levvys

[18:28:42] teamcoltra: okay New York / Zacqary

[18:29:40] Zacqary: We've been gaining membership and are going to be experimenting with G+ hangout meetings.

[18:29:59] Zacqary: And coming up this week, we'll be working on building a platform relevant to New York.

[18:30:12] Zacqary: Possibly focusing on economic issues.

[18:30:35] Zacqary: The Bronx County Green Party has contacted us about working together on activist projects.

[18:30:41] Zacqary: Nothing concrete yet, but we're talking to them.

[18:31:04] Zacqary: Oh, and we just got an official social media guy.

[18:31:10] Zacqary: I think that's it.

[18:31:15] kusanagi: Well, not offical juuuuuust yet

[18:31:24] kusanagi: but tomorrow, he should be

[18:31:29] kusanagi: that's all. sorry :3

[18:31:41] teamcoltra: kk

[18:31:49] teamcoltra: Thanks New York

[18:31:53] teamcoltra: and California isn't here

[18:31:58] teamcoltra: so Bosun from Wisconson

[18:32:03] teamcoltra: Wisconsin*

[18:32:12] Bosun: The organizing team has been discussing demographic trends looking at this: We skew heavy on FB toward Millennials - which is probably natural. Francis (our treasurer and best spokesman) is moving to Madison tomorrow, he expects to work on a UW student organization and organize in Madison in his spare time.

[18:33:40] Bosun: We are desighning a pamphlet for events. that is all.

[18:35:43] teamcoltra: Thanks Bosun

[18:36:06] teamcoltra: matuck_ or anyone working on IT do we have any updates?

[18:36:25] kusanagi: CalebLangeslag, ping

[18:37:08] matuck_: i will let CalebLangeslag chime in here

[18:37:11] CalebLangeslag: Nothing I can think of. I had a very decent idea for electronic voting, but having documented the idea yet (and perhaps wouldn't have the manpower alone to implement it)

[18:37:25] CalebLangeslag: haven't documented*

[18:37:47] CalebLangeslag: Since the OpenSSL API is a beastly beast, last I recall

[18:38:22] CalebLangeslag: EOF

[18:38:28] kusanagi: heh

[18:38:32] teamcoltra: Do you need any help with it? Do you want people to email you? Should we put a call out on Facebook/Twitter to help you with anything?

[18:38:36] Bosun: I am playing with the drupal voting modual.

[18:39:33] CalebLangeslag: Well, it would be nice to get people active in #uspp-it, so that we can pursue any reasonable projects that are brought up; and especially for opinions/feedback on certain project ideas.

[18:40:29] CalebLangeslag: and I'm talking of an actual voting system in which it would be anonymous, yet registered on record for each person, and where people can verify the vote count themselves, or validate that their vote was submitted

[18:40:33] teamcoltra: CalebLangeslag but for a person who doesn't care to get involved with the overall team but wants to help you with a project is this something you want a call out for? or do you want to wait until you actually have a gameplan?

[18:41:28] CalebLangeslag: Well, I would like to get it implemented; I just need to freaking draw it up (as I've been lazy to do), and we could certainly go into implementation as long as there are no conceptual flaws with it

[18:41:49] teamcoltra: Well then I will let you keep working on it, shoot me a message if you ever need help :)

[18:41:50] CalebLangeslag: Because I believe it's absolutely possible

[18:42:03] �kusanagi� ( left IRC. (Read error: Connection reset by peer)

[18:42:04] teamcoltra: Anything else?

[18:42:10] CalebLangeslag: and if we can pull it off, we'll probably have the most badass voting system there is. :P

[18:42:12] CalebLangeslag: Not much else.

[18:42:38] �kusanagi� ( joined the channel.

[18:42:38] �ChanServ� sets mode �+o kusanagi�

[18:43:13] teamcoltra: Okay Sacha have you decided against brining up your amendment discussion?

[18:43:22] teamcoltra: (I only ask because we are moving onto bylaws committee report next)

[18:44:21] Sacha: I decided not to bring up that one

[18:44:28] teamcoltra: Okay then bylaws committee Zacqary

[18:46:16] Zacqary: Not much to report. We've still been working on the bylaws.

[18:46:36] Zacqary: Not sure I can give an ETA but we'll try and get them ready to present soon.

[18:46:40] teamcoltra: kk

[18:46:51] teamcoltra: Convention Committtee

[18:46:55] teamcoltra: who did we put in charge of that?

[18:47:14] mildbeard: Bosun?

[18:47:21] kusanagi: yes

[18:47:35] Bosun: We had a meeting on Thursday. I am on a different computer and have misplaced the URL to the notes.

[18:48:02] teamcoltra: How convenient ;)

[18:48:05] teamcoltra: (jk of course)

[18:48:23] teamcoltra: Do you have a summary of what was discussed?

[18:48:23] Bosun: We will meet again at the same time thursday at 8pm on irc #usahcc

[18:49:11] Deamon: I can give it

[18:49:34] Bosun: Please.

[18:49:58] Deamon: We were discussing ways to do a convention quickly due to the small time constraint laid out in last weeks meeting and we came up with a few

[18:50:34] Bosun: Voting issues came up.

[18:50:49] Bosun: Credentials.

[18:50:51] Deamon: We were thinking of having it be a web-based convention, hosted on a single site which would direct people to meetings created by members throughout a 2 or 3 day period

[18:51:08] Deamon: Issue meetings, state meetings etc.

[18:51:48] Deamon: Have it be more focused on getting people in and talking to our current members to get more people into state parties and maybe help form more in states we’re not currently running in

[18:52:00] teamcoltra: I have comments on these,as I am sure others will as well - I just want to pre-emptively ask that no one provide feedback here, and attend their meeting if you have input

[18:52:12] Deamon: We welcome all comers

[18:52:23] Deamon: if that’s a word

[18:52:33] teamcoltra: All words were made up at some point

[18:52:55] Deamon: If anyone from IT is here we are definately going to need help with the voting system

[18:53:01] Deamon: and that’s all I got

[18:53:06] teamcoltra: Sweet, thanks Deamon

[18:53:08] teamcoltra: and Bosun

[18:53:14] teamcoltra: Agenda Items

[18:53:30] teamcoltra: First up PNC endorsement, whose agenda item was this?

[18:53:37] teamcoltra: Looks like NY?

[18:54:26] kusanagi: On request of Rush

[18:54:37] Rush: what

[18:54:44] teamcoltra: Okay well does Rush or NY want to speak first on the item

[18:54:50] Rush: what item

[18:54:52] kusanagi: sure

[18:55:01] teamcoltra: Endorsing a POTUS candidate

[18:55:16] Rush: Oh right

[18:55:20] kusanagi: We've been fielding a few questions from supporters about endorsing a ticket

[18:55:34] Rush: Some people on the Facebook accounts have asked who the party is endorsing for President

[18:55:39] Rush: among other positions

[18:55:43] kusanagi: and on IRC as well

[18:57:09] teamcoltra: Were there suggestions on who to endorse?

[18:57:17] kusanagi: No

[18:57:25] Rush: Jill Stein

[18:57:29] kusanagi: at least not from those asking

[18:57:38] teamcoltra: I meant in the channel

[18:57:49] kusanagi: oh

[18:57:52] kusanagi: >.>

[18:58:25] mildbeard: as long as it's not Romney...

[18:58:38] teamcoltra: I /cannot/ vote for someone who blatantly violates civil liberties. Our current president has had more civil liberties abuses than his predecessor, and the Democrats were the last hold outs on both SOPA and PIPA. He approves the assassination of US citizens without trial... and has not only not fulfilled his promise to shut down gitmo, had signed the legislation to increase it's power to send US citizens there as well. I cannot vote for the

[18:58:38] teamcoltra: incumbent, and would not be able to put my support behind him

[18:58:49] Bosun: We endorse "not Romney"

[18:59:05] kusanagi: Bosun, lol

[18:59:05] Rush: lol

[18:59:13] teamcoltra: Honestly I support Bosun's idea

[18:59:26] Zacqary: But also not Obama?

[18:59:41] CalebLangeslag: highfives teamcoltra and mildbeard

[18:59:43] teamcoltra: I love the idea of supporting the Greens, but we need to distance ourselves from them, and show that we are not a rehash of the Green Party (something they will start using against us once we become popular)

[18:59:44] Rush: Not Robomney

[18:59:49] CalebLangeslag: Perfect

[19:00:17] Bosun: I have the same problem with Obama as stated above. Even if I end up voting for him rather than Romney.

[19:00:17] CalebLangeslag: I was worried there, when I saw that agenda item before the meeting, of what the result would be. xP

[19:00:25] teamcoltra: In Canada they already say "there is no reason to vote Pirate, when you can vote Green" which is a lie, but it would be worse here if we start endorsing their candidates

[19:01:02] mildbeard: At this early stage in our development, it won't help a candidate much for us to endorse them. But it may hurt us.

[19:01:12] teamcoltra: mildbeard I agree with you

[19:01:30] kusanagi: yeah

[19:01:36] MrSquared: What about Libertarian?

[19:01:37] Deamon: thoughts on Gary Johnson of the Libertarians?

[19:01:43] MrSquared: lol

[19:01:45] Bosun: Please, no endorsment. We can ask that other candidate formally sighn on to our major platform point and we will list who complies.

[19:01:47] Rush: I haven't heard much of him

[19:01:59] Rush: that's an idea

[19:02:05] teamcoltra: If a non-democrat democrat was running (like Sanders or Kucinich) I would be willing to endorse them

[19:02:21] mildbeard: In Massachusetts we've benn contacted by a Libertarian candidate who explicitly endorses Pirate Party policies. That's a special case though.

[19:02:27] itspara: I like johnson

[19:02:35] MrSquared: i do as well

[19:02:51] Deamon: Johnson is very supportive of Net Nuetrality, it’s the other issue we may come to blows on

[19:02:52] itspara: But stein is also good

[19:02:53] CalebLangeslag: I would have no problems with Johnson at all

[19:02:55] teamcoltra: I would be nervous endorsing a libertarian as well, because we do promote a lot of government programs too

[19:03:00] Bosun: Sanders is an Independent and a card carring Socialist.

[19:03:02] Deamon: yeah

[19:03:19] Zacqary: My problem with Johnson is that he waves legalizing pot in everyone's faces to make them forget about the fact that his economic policies make no sernse.

[19:03:21] Zacqary: *sense

[19:03:23] teamcoltra: our commitment to humanism requires (at least in my mind) basic healthcare for people and stuff

[19:03:51] Rush: Guys, I need to flee, I have early day of stuff tomorrow. I'll read logs tomorrow

[19:03:55] �Rush� ( left IRC. (Quit: ajax IRC Client)

[19:04:14] CalebLangeslag: Just not the current implementation in the US, correct?

[19:04:25] Deamon: Definately

[19:04:33] teamcoltra: Obamacare is a joke, what we need is a nationalized health insurance plan

[19:04:42] kusanagi: it's a step though

[19:04:50] teamcoltra: It was pandering

[19:05:00] kusanagi: I know, but it's still a step.

[19:05:01] Bosun: The dems left want single payer.

[19:05:18] Zacqary: Hey, mildbeard, how's Romneycare working out in MA?

[19:05:25] Zacqary: Does it actually work?

[19:05:34] mildbeard: The battle between the Dems and Reps is just a smokescreen to cover up the fact that they're both owned by the corporations.

[19:05:34] teamcoltra: Let's not get off track?

[19:05:40] Bosun: I have a service related problem and get VA healthcare. It works for me.

[19:05:58] teamcoltra: Does anyone want to make a motion to support any candidate?

[19:06:01] teamcoltra: if not we should move on

[19:06:15] mildbeard: We should leave this to the state parties, I think.

[19:06:36] Bosun: I propose we support "Not Romney"

[19:06:46] teamcoltra: any seconds?

[19:07:24] Bosun: OK leave it up to the states.

[19:07:36] teamcoltra: Okay lets move on

[19:07:40] teamcoltra: State of AGP3

[19:07:53] teamcoltra: since California isn't here, I would like to speak on this first unless there is an objection?

[19:08:35] teamcoltra: Okay so I am going to be talking with Karl on Skype about AGP3 soon

[19:09:17] teamcoltra: And I will be in Germany in about 20 days to formalize everything and to discuss the future of our parties in person.

[19:09:46] teamcoltra: Germany wants to focus on one state (California) and try to help them get going as a party

[19:09:54] teamcoltra: then use that success to help other states out

[19:10:06] teamcoltra: Instead of trying to blanket support everyone and just getting burned out

[19:10:10] �OyajiVyse� ( joined the channel.

[19:10:14] teamcoltra: Any questions comments or concerns

[19:10:52] kusanagi: well, it appears that other states are getting help now

[19:11:15] kusanagi: there has been no mention of this, save for one meeting, untill i asked today what was going on in the facebook group

[19:11:54] teamcoltra: it was said in previous meetings as well

[19:12:17] kusanagi: i just said that

[19:12:31] kusanagi: as far as i knew, only mipp got flyers or something

[19:12:33] teamcoltra: You just said there was no mention of it, I am saying there has been

[19:12:42] kusanagi: travis.

[19:12:53] Deamon: Amanda, did you get them? I have heard nothing on it

[19:12:57] kusanagi: she did

[19:13:05] Sacha: What, one second

[19:13:17] kusanagi: i just said that only 1 meeting has had a mention of this.

[19:13:58] teamcoltra: The status hasn't changed, there was no need to make another update on something that hasn't changed

[19:13:58] Sacha: Karl said that he wants to talk to Mi, NY and the PNC

[19:14:09] Sacha: not just california, but that he will offer help to california

[19:14:20] Sacha: Also Deamon you know about this, he was in a meeting to help us remember

[19:14:26] Sacha: and he sent us stickers and flyers, I told you about that

[19:14:34] Sacha: I told the whole PNC about the stickers and flyers

[19:14:47] kusanagi: teamcoltra, well I wasn't aware, and I wanted a formal record of it.

[19:14:52] kusanagi: It's been some time.

[19:15:16] Sacha: As far as I am concerned there is no reason to discuss what MiPP and AGPPP are talking about in the PNC

[19:15:22] Sacha: whatever help they offer and we accept is up to us

[19:15:30] Sacha: as a state party we have that autonomy

[19:15:34] teamcoltra: Yes, but the focus will be California (or a single state) to get them going. They might help all the parties. However, there will be a big drive to help California reach their signature requirement. Maybe a second state, but the agreement that was made so far is that we don't want to strech the support too thin

[19:15:52] Sacha: and when we gave our report about what we'd been up to, we would mention it along with everything else we have been up to

[19:15:55] kusanagi: IL has been a focus too.

[19:16:02] kusanagi: or, from what i understand

[19:16:13] Sacha: Then I guess IL is a focus as well

[19:16:24] kusanagi: shouldn't all states be getting that help?

[19:16:26] Sacha: I am just not quite sure why the PNC needs to be involved in state business

[19:16:27] teamcoltra: There is a difference between getting support, and being the focus. Which is what I am trying to say.

[19:16:32] teamcoltra: No, kusanagi, they shouldn't be.

[19:16:33] Sacha: If Travis wants to talk to Karl he can

[19:16:42] kusanagi: Ok, that's fine

[19:16:47] Sacha: If you want to talk to Karl, Kusanagi go ahead

[19:16:52] kusanagi: already am.

[19:17:05] Sacha: I do not see why it needs to be an agenda point unless the PNC as the PNC does something with AGPPP

[19:17:25] teamcoltra: If we can get successful in one state, then we can get the media attention which can help other parties get the members needed to start in their state.

[19:17:41] teamcoltra: Also we can learn what is working and what is not... and then share that information.

[19:17:50] kusanagi: okay, that's good.

[19:17:58] Sacha: TeamColtra Very true and how Karl wants to help out in the long term to the party overall would be best discussed with you, not the PNC

[19:18:04] teamcoltra: I am discussing in depth side-by-side support. There would not be enough resources to help all the states like that

[19:18:13] Sacha: if a state wants help they can contact you to contact him or contact Karl

[19:18:15] kusanagi: guys

[19:18:27] kusanagi: Would CullenMatthews be allowed to speak on the matter,seeing as he's from IL?

[19:18:45] teamcoltra: CullenMatthews do you have information about AGP3?

[19:18:50] teamcoltra: that hasn't been shared?

[19:18:54] CullenMatthews: yes

[19:18:57] teamcoltra: Go ahead

[19:20:07] CullenMatthews: Karl has contacted me about forming an ILPP but however we are still trying to recruit new members. also he asked me about coming up with a ILPP constiution so he can publish it on the AGP3 webpage which is still in a rough draft phase

[19:22:02] teamcoltra: Was that all?

[19:22:11] CullenMatthews: as far as im aware yes

[19:22:38] teamcoltra: Okay was there anything else we need to discuss on the state of AGP3?

[19:22:54] kusanagi: No, I just wanted an update. this was sufficient.

[19:23:20] teamcoltra: A suggested amendment to the PNC constitution Article IV Section Two: Eligibility

[19:23:22] Sacha: I have a real quick question if that is okay?

[19:23:28] teamcoltra: yeah go ahead Sacha

[19:24:00] Sacha: Nevermind it is a needlessly combative comment I just decided

[19:24:09] teamcoltra: Okay so A suggested amendment to the PNC constitution Article IV Section Two: Eligibility

[19:24:12] teamcoltra: whose was this?

[19:24:17] Sacha: Me

[19:24:21] teamcoltra: go ahead

[19:24:32] Zacqary: Guys, I need to leave. Sorry. My alt might be able to show up for the rest of the meeting if needed. See you

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[19:25:13] Sacha: Okay so my suggested amendment has to do with the constitution

[19:25:30] kusanagi: as opposed to.. lol

[19:25:43] Sacha: Article IV section 2, eligibility of officers

[19:25:49] Sacha: the constitution reads

[19:26:03] teamcoltra: retract the claws kusanagi

[19:26:05] Sacha: "Section 2: Eligibility To be eligible to hold one of the positions set forth in Art. IV §1, a candidate must be an active member of a Pirate Party based in a Member State of the PNC. To be eligible to hold the position of Captain set forth in Art. IV §1.1, a candidate must not be a Representative of a Member State, or must abdicate the role of Representative upon election as Captain."

[19:26:10] Sacha: My problem is with number 1

[19:26:34] Sacha: is that it is too restrictive

[19:26:40] mildbeard: I completely agree, that needs to be changed.

[19:26:46] Sacha: I remember that we discussed this in the committee

[19:26:50] Sacha: and did not want it in

[19:26:52] OyajiVyse: Daniel Gorski, NY rep

[19:26:58] Sacha: but I think we were pressured by time and forgot

[19:27:00] �teamcoltra� sets mode �+v OyajiVyse�

[19:27:21] teamcoltra: I remember it being discussed and removed, to be honest.

[19:27:33] Sacha: As do I

[19:27:34] teamcoltra: but I didn't participate much, so I could be wrong

[19:27:39] Sacha: yet somehow it is in the final copy

[19:27:47] kusanagi: I don't recall that.. does anyone else?

[19:27:52] Sacha: Yes

[19:28:01] Sacha: it was in the comment section of the google doc

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[19:28:06] Sacha: you were not there

[19:28:12] kusanagi: I would have seen t.

[19:28:18] teamcoltra: moving along...

[19:28:20] kusanagi: i did read it in the process.

[19:28:28] mildbeard: We changed that section but this was the last thing that we didn't change. It was even more restrictive before.

[19:28:46] teamcoltra: It doesn't matter if it was or wasn't removed or how it happened, it just matters that it is there now

[19:29:24] mildbeard: It would be nice if we had a constitutional amendment as a first agenda item when we have more states present.

[19:29:38] mildbeard: otherwise I'd say we should go right ahead and vote on it.

[19:29:51] teamcoltra: we are still above quorum

[19:29:54] Sacha: What i would like to suggest is that a member state moves to remove it

[19:30:30] teamcoltra: Actually we only lost Florida

[19:30:48] mildbeard: Can someone repeat the language of item 1?

[19:31:00] teamcoltra: Current or amended?

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[19:31:29] mildbeard: Sorry I didn't realize there was amended language.

[19:31:34] mildbeard: What is it amended to?

[19:32:08] teamcoltra: lol I don't think there was any, but I thought you might have thought you missed it

[19:32:26] teamcoltra: §1.1, a candidate must not be a Representative of a Member State, or must abdicate the role of Representative upon election as Captain."

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[19:32:55] �Sacha_� ( joined the channel.

[19:33:01] teamcoltra: err

[19:33:04] Sacha_: We can always wait until next week

[19:33:07] Sacha_: as there is no time issue

[19:33:20] teamcoltra: Section 2: Eligibility To be eligible to hold one of the positions set forth in Art. IV §1, a candidate must be an active member of a Pirate Party based in a Member State of the PNC. To be eligible to hold the position of Captain set forth in Art. IV §1.1, a candidate must not be a Representative of a Member State, or must abdicate the role of Representative upon election as Captain.

[19:33:20] mildbeard: What does the entire section look like if we just strike that item 1.1?

[19:33:28] teamcoltra: 1.1 isn't the problem

[19:33:36] teamcoltra: it's hte a candidate must be an active member of a Pirate Party based in a Member State of the PNC.

[19:33:41] mildbeard: aha

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[19:34:00] mildbeard: How about strike the whole thing?

[19:34:14] teamcoltra: The problem is a very real one too... while technically I am a member of the Washington Pirate Party, it really is a loose technicality

[19:34:28] Sacha_: I agree with Mildbeard

[19:34:42] Bosun: I'm confused can sacha state how it would be proposed to read?

[19:34:43] teamcoltra: I like 1.1 though

[19:34:46] Sacha_: Well I think the second one is needed

[19:34:52] Sacha_: Travis

[19:34:56] teamcoltra: if you are elected you can't also be the representative of your state

[19:35:13] Bosun: Yes agreed

[19:35:20] Sacha_: 2.1 says that a person needs to be part of a member state

[19:35:23] Sacha_: why do you agree with that one

[19:35:26] mildbeard: So it would be changed to read as follows.

[19:36:02] Sacha_: I would expand the second one to include all officers of the PNC, we do not need conflicts of interest. you can be an alt but not the main rep

[19:36:11] mildbeard: Section2: Eligibility. To be eligible to hold the position of caption set forth in Article IV section1.1, a candidate must not be a representative of a member state, or must abdicate the role of representative upon election as Captain.

[19:36:32] kusanagi: No, you shouldn't be a rep at all if elected, especially for Captain.

[19:37:04] kusanagi: either alt or main rep, no

[19:37:04] Bosun: /Captain/s/Officer/

[19:37:08] kusanagi: yes

[19:37:11] Sacha_: Mildbeard I think we should change it to be officer rather than just captain

[19:37:15] mildbeard: That was in the previous version and I objected to it.

[19:37:17] Sacha_: Kusanagi I disagree with the second

[19:37:27] Sacha_: some states do not have enough members to do so

[19:37:40] Sacha_: Being an alt is fine as the alt is rarely used

[19:37:52] kusanagi: we have 2 alts right now.

[19:37:54] Sacha_: and they simply will not act as their position in that case

[19:38:13] Sacha_: like you did with first mate and being rep for NY when Zac couldn't make it

[19:39:03] teamcoltra: It seems silly to allow them to be the official alt, if they cannot actually fulfill the position of alt

[19:39:10] kusanagi: teamcoltra, exactly

[19:39:24] Bosun: /a representative/s/a primary representative/

[19:39:28] kusanagi: Sacha_, that was because we usually can't pull someone up

[19:39:29] Sacha_: TeamColtra why can they not do that?

[19:39:40] kusanagi: that's a last resort, really

[19:39:42] Sacha_: If they need to be an alt

[19:39:51] Sacha_: then they act as alt

[19:39:54] teamcoltra: Because you can't run a meeting and be a representative.

[19:40:19] Sacha_: and we have a procedure in the bylaws for if an officer cannot make it

[19:40:22] Sacha_: so that goes into effect

[19:40:27] Bosun: clearly it would be a conflict of interest.

[19:40:43] Sacha_: Bosun No it wouldn't

[19:40:49] kusanagi: yes, it could be

[19:40:49] Sacha_: they would not be acting as an officer

[19:40:56] Sacha_: in the rare case that they act as an alt

[19:41:02] Sacha_: Alts are rarely called on

[19:41:05] kusanagi: um

[19:41:07] kusanagi: no

[19:41:14] kusanagi: it happens quite often

[19:41:22] Sacha_: Not that I have seen

[19:41:25] kusanagi: isn't there even an alt from MIPP here?

[19:41:41] kusanagi: I usually sub in for zac, matuck_ subbing for jarod right now

[19:41:51] Sacha_: kusanagi No, there is a rep

[19:41:52] Deamon: I guess technically I am the alt

[19:41:59] Sacha_: No you are a full rep

[19:42:01] Sacha_: not an alt

[19:42:16] Brendan: just have it such that both positions can be held by the same person, but not during the same meeting

[19:42:22] Sacha_: We are switching between people as our alt, remember

[19:42:22] teamcoltra: In PPI it's generally frowned upon if a PPI board member also acts as a countries representative... because other countries feel uncomfortable approaching them with concerns about the board

[19:42:33] Brendan: so if the captain is the alt, and the main person from that can't turn up, they either 1) find another alt or 2) have another USPP board member chair the meeting

[19:42:39] Sacha_: Brendan That is what I was saying, I completely agree with you there

[19:42:58] Sacha_: Brendan In the bylaws proposal we have a procedure for no. 2 outlined, so we could use that

[19:43:09] teamcoltra: Like when I was both PPI Board and PPCA's PPI liason, another state wanted to file a complaint against the PPI Board, so he wanted to talk to Canada, but couldn't because I was on the board and it would be a conflict of interest

[19:43:18] Sacha_: Alt = rep in my switching comment

[19:43:22] teamcoltra: Even if they knew I would be fair, it's the perception amongst other people

[19:43:32] teamcoltra: I would have to choose between my country and the PPI board

[19:43:38] Sacha_: Teamcoltra that is because you were both at the same time

[19:43:46] Sacha_: To me it is the same as saying Kusanagi cannot be an officer

[19:43:47] Mozart: teamcoltra: Greg and Lola are both the International Officers for their respective countries.

[19:43:50] Sacha_: because she is from new york

[19:43:57] Sacha_: and in NYPP

[19:44:01] Sacha_: so she will have a conflict of interest

[19:44:07] kusanagi: no

[19:44:08] mildbeard: OK so we're saying no requirement for any officer to live in a member state, and no officer can also be or act as the state rep. Is that the consensus?

[19:44:10] Brendan: Mozart: which is probably a good counterexample to what Sacha_ wants haha

[19:44:12] teamcoltra: Mozart I don't usually use Greg and Lola as my examples of what should be done.

[19:44:13] Sacha_: if you are not acting as both in the same meeting, then there will be no conflict of interest

[19:44:15] Bosun: How about an officer cannot be a primary representative nor may the captain be either a primary or alternate of a member state

[19:44:29] kusanagi: mildbeard, i would prefer to see there be a requirement for an officer to be from a member state

[19:44:39] kusanagi: otherwise, why even join the pnc?

[19:44:54] kusanagi: the only thing one couldn't do is make or second a motion

[19:44:55] teamcoltra: To vote, to speak

[19:44:56] mildbeard: kusanagi, a full member state?

[19:45:00] Sacha_: Kusanagi Not all states are full members or can be yet

[19:45:01] kusanagi: yes

[19:45:05] Sacha_: We are extremely young

[19:45:05] mildbeard: I disagree.

[19:45:16] Sacha_: Why would we limit the opportunities like that

[19:45:22] teamcoltra: lol there are a lot of advantages of being a full member other than getting to field PNC candidates

[19:45:25] Sacha_: we only have what... 8 full member states?

[19:45:39] kusanagi: yes. 9 if we could somehow pull marcus back

[19:45:48] mildbeard: We don't want to restrict who we can recruit as an officer, and we're making it very hard for states to put forward candidates. We're going to wind up with a very small pool of people who can act as officers. We want the best we can get.

[19:45:53] Sacha_: Kusanagi So 8

[19:46:05] Bosun: How about allowing affiliates to members states for people from unorganized or unrecognized states?

[19:46:06] kusanagi: Sacha_, yes, i just agreed.

[19:46:12] Sacha_: only 8 people can be candidates from the beginning

[19:46:16] kusanagi: no

[19:46:18] kusanagi: not 8

[19:46:23] kusanagi: but members of those parties

[19:46:29] Sacha_: and then to say that they have at least 3 people in those states be active enough

[19:46:33] kusanagi: that's how i interpretted it

[19:46:40] Sacha_: and availabe enough to make PNC meetings

[19:46:47] teamcoltra: Okay how about a compromise: A full member state has to approve the nomination of the candidate, but they can approve the nomination of as many candidates as they wish

[19:46:48] Sacha_: is nuts

[19:46:53] matuck_: got to bounce guys

[19:46:59] teamcoltra: take care mildbeard

[19:46:59] teamcoltra: err

[19:47:00] teamcoltra: matuck_

[19:47:12] Sacha_: You only have 8 pools to collect people from

[19:47:16] kusanagi: good night, matuck_

[19:47:29] Sacha_: night matuck_

[19:47:45] mildbeard: you can exclude Mass - we don't have anyone with the bandwidth who can make that kind of time commitment in addition to having a PNC rep.

[19:47:47] teamcoltra: So let's say I run, mildbeard can say "Travis, I might not agree with everything you have done -- but I approve you running for officer"

[19:47:55] Sacha_: Michigan would be out

[19:48:01] Sacha_: Washington would be out

[19:48:04] Sacha_: Florida would be out

[19:48:21] Sacha_: I believe Wi would be out as I have only seen two reps

[19:48:25] kusanagi: FL wouldn't be out. they could post it

[19:48:26] teamcoltra: That way it weeds out people who came out of no where

[19:48:41] Sacha_: Kusanagi no, you have to have a stated alt

[19:48:45] Sacha_: so rush could not be an alt

[19:48:50] Sacha_: and his alt would have to be main

[19:48:56] Sacha_: so you would need another person to agree to be out

[19:48:58] kusanagi: no, they could do what NY has done

[19:49:03] Sacha_: i am not even sure if fl has an official alt

[19:49:23] kusanagi: ask to see if anyone is interested in the PNC alt/rep or Officer position

[19:49:23] Sacha_: Kusanagi NY has you as an alt

[19:49:30] kusanagi: No

[19:49:34] Sacha_: Non-issue

[19:49:34] kusanagi: OyajiVyse is.

[19:49:39] OyajiVyse: waves

[19:49:41] Sacha_: let's get back on track

[19:49:46] kusanagi: lol

[19:49:51] Sacha_: So Mass would be out

[19:49:58] Sacha_: Washington would be out

[19:50:04] Sacha_: Georgia would be out

[19:50:22] Sacha_: Oregon would be out I am pretty sure

[19:50:28] Sacha_: I think wisconsin would be out

[19:50:39] Sacha_: So I see New York, California and Florida maybe

[19:50:58] Bosun: No I have people.

[19:50:58] Sacha_: So with those qualifications that is our pool of people to get officers from

[19:51:05] teamcoltra: Here are my two compromises - I now agree that as long as our captain does not represent a state, the FM can... however, if they ever get ascended to CpN they have to give up other roles of course. A person can be from anywhere, but their nomination has to be approved by a member state

[19:51:36] kusanagi: teamcoltra, that's reasonable.

[19:51:38] teamcoltra: The member state approval isn't a big deal, because if you can't find one member state to approve your nomination, you were not going to win anyway

[19:51:43] Bosun: I like the comprimise.

[19:51:48] Sacha_: Teamcoltra FM and Qm

[19:52:01] teamcoltra: Sacha_ yes

[19:52:08] mildbeard: Isn't it FO?

[19:52:16] Sacha_: Teamcoltra I like the compromise

[19:52:31] teamcoltra: ;) it's why they elected me Captain

[19:52:38] Bosun: Yeah what she said.

[19:52:47] teamcoltra: mildbeard - First Mate

[19:52:52] teamcoltra: Quartermaster

[19:52:58] mildbeard: Not First Officer?

[19:53:05] teamcoltra: I don't think so, unless we changed the name

[19:53:09] Sacha_: Mildbeard I know that was a suggestion but I cannot recall if we agreed to change it because as I recall the disagreement was based on the idea that it is weird to call a woman a firstmate

[19:53:11] mildbeard: ok np

[19:53:16] kusanagi: i think it was, now that it's been mentioned

[19:53:22] kusanagi: Sacha_, I CAN CONFIRM THE WEIRD

[19:53:23] kusanagi: lol

[19:53:36] mildbeard: right

[19:53:44] kusanagi: :P

[19:53:58] Sacha_: One second

[19:54:00] Sacha_: I can look it up

[19:54:01] teamcoltra: Okay so does anyone want to formulate that into a motion

[19:54:02] Bosun: If we have language, Wisconsin will so move.

[19:54:57] OyajiVyse: why do we need universal inclusion anyway?

[19:54:57] mildbeard: Guys I have to drop in the next 4 min.

[19:55:04] teamcoltra: Then after this motion, I owuld ask that we adjourn

[19:55:07] Sacha_: We agreed to change it to first officer

[19:55:09] teamcoltra: and carry the next to items ot next week

[19:55:18] Sacha_: so i'll go through the bylaws and the constitution while I am at it and change it

[19:55:24] kusanagi: don't have a pool otherwise

[19:55:43] teamcoltra: Or do we want to move this to next week as well?

[19:55:54] Sacha_: actually it is already FO in the constitution :P

[19:56:07] Sacha_: We can move it to next week

[19:56:11] Sacha_: for the beginning of the meeting

[19:56:22] Sacha_: it is not extremely pressing as elections are still a bit off

[19:56:46] Bosun: I think we need to table. Can the langiage be hashed out on list?

[19:57:16] Sacha_: I think we can hash it out in the USPP meeting on tuesday

[19:57:20] teamcoltra: I think we are all a bit fried after 2 hours.

[19:57:20] Sacha_: and not spam people's emails

[19:57:26] Sacha_: we have the meeting for a reason

[19:57:29] teamcoltra: I think a bit of both wont hurt

[19:57:44] kusanagi: 2 hours is short for us lmao

[19:57:44] teamcoltra: Another row in your inbox isn't going to kill anyone either

[19:57:52] Sacha_: I guess I just do not like the list but feel free to do as you wish :P

[19:57:57] kusanagi: Sacha_, it's a social

[19:58:08] teamcoltra: Anyway I need a motion to table this until next week

[19:58:24] teamcoltra: and then a motion to adjourn after that

[19:58:37] Bosun: But Wisconsin's Paul Ryan is speaking at the RNC now ?.

[19:58:41] mildbeard: move to table it until next week

[19:58:47] teamcoltra: Seconds?

[19:58:53] MrSquared: second

[19:58:57] Bosun: second

[19:59:01] teamcoltra: in favour?

[19:59:08] mildbeard: aye

[19:59:09] Bosun: aye

[19:59:24] MrSquared: aye

[19:59:31] teamcoltra: OyajiVyse

[19:59:34] teamcoltra: Bosun

[19:59:38] OyajiVyse: aye

[19:59:41] teamcoltra: sorry Bosun

[19:59:49] teamcoltra: called the vote

[19:59:59] Deamon: aye

[20:00:06] Sacha_: 4 for

[20:00:25] teamcoltra: And a motion to adjourn?

[20:00:35] mildbeard: I move to adjourn the meeting.

[20:00:44] Bosun: move to adjourn

[20:00:47] MrSquared: i second

[20:00:50] Bosun: second

[20:00:54] teamcoltra: favour?

[20:00:55] mildbeard: third

[20:00:59] mildbeard: aye

[20:01:01] Bosun: aye

[20:01:03] OyajiVyse: aye

[20:01:05] MrSquared: aye

[20:01:07] Deamon: aye

[20:01:15] teamcoltra: vote called

[20:01:17] teamcoltra: good night guys