PNC 11/25/19

Agenda

1. Website & Taxonomy
2. Supporting local and state chapters
3. Other platforms for our meetings and publicly sharing this content quickly

Decisions

My long term goal is to be in office as a Pirate. I do not plan to be Captain for more than a year, but will hold the post as long as it is asked of me and I know that I can be useful to it. I had chosen this party because they are not Republicans nor Democrats. Pirates are not left nor right. The goals could better be likened to that of the love child of the anarchist and constitutionalist. We do not ask for transparency, we demand it. That is why I had no objection to Liz’s demand to keep all dialog public for all to see. That is why I speak to you here and now. That is why I am a Pirate. I have long studied different systems by which we have ruled ourselves and how each one has failed in turn. The only system that has ever worked is when those that have authority are accountable and never hold that authority for long. We need to end the secret councils, we need to end the corporate wall. That is why I am a Pirate. I know that we each have some ideal that is true for each one of us. Each one of us matters in a way that is very difficult to articulate but very easy to feel. Each one of us has to recognize the importance of individual autonomy. All laws should not take away that which I choose for myself. Laws should be off my body. That is why I am a Pirate. We are the ones whom have worked pulling people together and I will be honored to continue to work to streamline, innovate and make everyplace we go a better place for all. I am proud to be a Pirate.

Minutes

Record of the meeting

 



[9:08pm] bosun: Joseph Klein, WI
[9:08pm] Pirate_Joe: I was waiting on one more, the rep from MA
[9:08pm] Pirate_Joe: IDs then?
[9:08pm] OGPAF: Johann Drolshagen, Webmaster, California
[9:08pm] Pirate_Joe: Joseph Onoroski, Chair, MA
[9:08pm] kusanagi: Liz Gorski, NY
[9:09pm] sayyida: Megan Klein WI
[9:09pm] jokeefe: James O’Keefe, Scribe, MA
[9:09pm] jokeefe: agenda/notes at https://wiki.pirate-party.us/PNC_11/25/19
[9:09pm] papegaai: Title: PNC 11/25/19 - United States Pirate Party (at wiki.pirate-party.us)
[9:09pm] Pirate_Joe: The agenda for this meeting has but one item
[9:10pm] Pirate_Joe: Which is the call of No Confidence by the honorable representative of NY
[9:10pm] Pirate_Joe: Before we proceed, I have prepared a brief speech to explain my actions and purpose.
[9:11pm] bosun: Sayyida will  be voting for WI
[9:11pm] Pirate_Joe: However I will refrain from it and move right to the vote if you prefer.
[9:12pm] sayyida: gothca bosun
[9:12pm] jokeefe: Having note read any of the emails due to being busy with personal issues, I would appreciate hearing why
[9:12pm] bosun: No that is a point of order I was just informing the chair
[9:12pm] jokeefe: s/note/not/g
[9:12pm] kusanagi: I mean, the majority of this was brought up from stuff the alleged webmaster brought up. I still have not seen any changes to the bylaws in regard to the positions, which is concerning.
[9:13pm] jokeefe: that’s my fault
[9:13pm] Pirate_Joe: I see, jokeefe, do you have access to the links?
[9:13pm] jokeefe: I haven’t added it due to technical issues
[9:14pm] kusanagi: jokeefe, it's.. pretty lengthy. I saw a number of things in a proposal by Johan that was brought up in May, and while the entire document is troubling, there are several things that stood out.
[9:14pm] jokeefe: It is in a meeting notes
[9:14pm] jokeefe: will post link
[9:14pm] kusanagi: Okay, that's a major problem right there.
[9:14pm] kusanagi: But I'll go for it later - if there's tech issues, that's something we need to work out.
[9:15pm] jokeefe: https://wiki.pirate-party.us/PNC_09/09/19
[9:15pm] papegaai: Title: PNC 09/09/19 - United States Pirate Party (at wiki.pirate-party.us)
[9:15pm] kusanagi: Ther document that was at email #0 of the thread that I wound up called for VoNC in has a shift of Pirate Policy to being "left-centrist." We have NEVER been that.
[9:16pm] saline_retry joined the chat room.
[9:16pm] sayyida: kusanagi:  you're right. we've never been there
[9:17pm] sayyida: Pirate_Joe: has spoken to me and explained his view and I think we should hear it
[9:17pm] Pirate_Joe: The left centrists is my failed explanation that I was using.  I understand that it was not conveying the intended message and am happy to make the needed corrections.
[9:17pm] kusanagi: Then let's hear it.
[9:18pm] Pirate_Joe: This has been a long and challenging week but I hope to address some concerns brought forth. There has been much stated but I would like to touch upon my motivations for why I am here.
[9:18pm] kusanagi: Because I am SORELY concerned and I don't think that the current state of things is acceptable.
[9:18pm] Pirate_Joe: My long term goal is to be in office as a Pirate. I do not plan to be Captain for more than a year, but will hold the post as long as it is asked of me and I know that I can be useful to it.  I had chosen this party because they are not Republicans nor Democrats.  Pirates are not left nor right.  The goals could better be likened to that of the lov
[9:18pm] Pirate_Joe: e child of the anarchist and constitutionalist.  We do not ask for transparency, we demand it.  That is why I had no objection to Liz’s demand to keep all dialog public for all to see.  That is why I speak to you here and now. That is why I am a Pirate.
[9:18pm] Pirate_Joe: I have long studied different systems by which we have ruled ourselves and how each one has failed in turn.  The only system that has ever worked is when those that have authority are accountable and never hold that authority for long.  We need to end the secret councils, we need to end the corporate wall.  That is why I am a Pirate. 
[9:18pm] Pirate_Joe: I know that we each have some ideal that is true for each one of us. Each one of us matters in a way that is very difficult to articulate but very easy to feel.  Each one of us has to recognize the importance of individual autonomy.  All laws should not take away that which I choose for myself.  Laws should be off my body.  That is why I am a Pirat
[9:18pm] Pirate_Joe: e.
[9:18pm] Pirate_Joe: We are the ones whom have worked pulling people together and I will be honored to continue to work to streamline, innovate and make everyplace we go a better place for all. I am proud to be a Pirate.
[9:18pm] kusanagi: give everyone a minute to read the copy-paste
[9:19pm] • Pirate_Joe thanks kusanagi for the guidance.
[9:19pm] OGPAF: Arrrrrgh
[9:19pm] kusanagi: I'm sorry, anarchist and.. constitutionalist?
[9:20pm] kusanagi: Point of order, can non-statements be withheld for later, like "Arrrgh"?
[9:21pm] jokeefe: I posted Pirate_Joe’s statement at https://wiki.pirate-party.us/PNC_11/25/19#Decisions
[9:21pm] papegaai: Title: PNC 11/25/19 - United States Pirate Party (at wiki.pirate-party.us)
[9:21pm] Pirate_Joe: Even that being said, I am happy to move on with the VoNC
[9:21pm] kusanagi: Thank you jokeefe
[9:21pm] jokeefe: temporarily
[9:21pm] jokeefe: at least at that location in the page
[9:21pm] sayyida: cool thank yo
[9:21pm] sayyida: you*
[9:22pm] kusanagi: I don't think that statement is clarifying at all, Pirate_38633
[9:22pm] kusanagi: Pirate_Joe, ^^
[9:22pm] sayyida: I say continue the VoNC
[9:22pm] bosun: Every system fails eventually fails because of unchecked power breaking it.
[9:22pm] Pirate_Joe: At least I hope that you have understanding of my motivations, since I see our issues as those that transcend. Neither left nor right.  This is the only point I have disagreed with you on.  All other points we are in total agreement.
[9:23pm] Pirate_Joe: So lets proceed with the VoNC
[9:23pm] kusanagi: It's a statement that says nothing. I'm not satisfied.
[9:23pm] jokeefe: I would be more clear if we did not use acronyms
[9:24pm] kusanagi: I think it's best to proceed with the Vote of No COnfidence.
[9:24pm] jokeefe: objection: what is the justification for the vote of no confidence? not trying to be obtuse, but want it clearly defined
[9:24pm] bosun: Left and right are a false framework, who's left, who's right?
[9:24pm] Pirate_Joe: Please clarify what you are looking to understand kusanagi? I agree with you that left centrist is a poor choice of words.
[9:25pm] Pirate_Joe: Very well, anyone second the motion?
[9:25pm] sayyida: second
[9:25pm] Pirate_Joe: All in favor?
[9:25pm] OGPAF: Objection
[9:25pm] sayyida: aye
[9:25pm] OGPAF: as previously stated
[9:25pm] bosun: point of order
[9:25pm] Pirate_Joe: ^
[9:25pm] sayyida: you have no voice here OGPAF
[9:25pm] kusanagi: jokeefe, the document I mentioned earlier emailed over SAB by Johan lists a number of things that just don't sit right with me, including but not limited to information about how to make money from the party
[9:25pm] OGPAF: really?
[9:25pm] bosun: OGPAF is not a qualified vote
[9:26pm] kusanagi: Johan's behavior is the main catalyst though
[9:26pm] sayyida: EXACTLY
[9:26pm] OGPAF: there is not a single member state in good standing
[9:26pm] jokeefe: OGPAF is trying to help build the party.
[9:26pm] sayyida: CA hasn't recognized him
[9:26pm] bosun: Corporate donations are illegal.
[9:26pm] sayyida: CA doesn't exist
[9:26pm] sayyida: HE HAS NO VOICE
[9:26pm] jokeefe: if more guidance is required then that is what we should do
[9:27pm] OGPAF: as I have requested multiple times
[9:27pm] Pirate_Joe: Order please, we were in the middle of a vote.
[9:27pm] kusanagi: last time i checked, I was explaining the information to jokeefe
[9:27pm] OGPAF: no tuntil the objections are dealt with
[9:27pm] sayyida: thank you Pirate_Joe
[9:27pm] OGPAF: PoO
[9:28pm] kusanagi: Pirate_Joe, can you remove the motion from the floor for a moment.
[9:28pm] Pirate_Joe: kusanagi, as rep of NY, what is your vote
[9:28pm] OGPAF: Point of Order
[9:28pm] sayyida: OGPAF:  you do not have a vote, your objection is null
[9:28pm] kusanagi: Remove the motionm.
[9:28pm] Pirate_Joe: Motion tabled
[9:28pm] kusanagi: I'm in the middle of trying to explain things.
[9:28pm] OGPAF: sorry megan - your scribe and captain have said the board position stands
[9:28pm] Pirate_Joe: kusanagi, you have to floor
[9:28pm] Pirate_Joe: *the
[9:29pm] kusanagi: Thank you
[9:29pm] kusanagi: As I was saying, jokeefe, the main catalyst is Johan's behavior. I read through the document, and saw that there was a new URL listed as being USPP's. It is not. It was registered by Johan before he was on the board.
[9:31pm] kusanagi: His behavior, especially his demands after I called for the vote of no confidence is appalling.
[9:31pm] kusanagi: Travis McCrea and Andrew Norton have also voiced their concerns in the email thread
[9:32pm] OGPAF: objection hear say
[9:32pm] kusanagi: It isn't hearsay.
[9:32pm] jokeefe: OGPAF, please let kusanagi finish
[9:32pm] Pirate_Joe: ^
[9:32pm] kusanagi: It's evident in the thread.
[9:32pm] OGPAF: k
[9:33pm] kusanagi: It's there. Read it. Teamcoltra is McCrea.
[9:33pm] Pirate_Joe: kusanagi. There are more, though that is trivial at this point.
[9:33pm] kusanagi: The document listed also talks about moving the party's views to pandering, which we know does not work.
[9:34pm] bosun: and corporate donations
[9:34pm] kusanagi: yeah. corporate donations are illegal.
[9:34pm] jokeefe: which aren’t allowed for FEC committees
[9:34pm] sayyida: we had that issue before
[9:35pm] kusanagi: Yes we did!
[9:35pm] kusanagi: And that person acted a lot like how we've seen Johan act  over the email thread.
[9:35pm] sayyida: kusanagi:  i need to speak
[9:36pm] kusanagi: I move to give the floor to saline_retry
[9:36pm] kusanagi: sayyida, rather.
[9:36pm] sayyida: thank you
[9:36pm] Pirate_Joe: Sayyida, you have the floor
[9:36pm] sayyida: everyone. Plainly OGPAF is using us.
[9:36pm] jokeefe: OGPAF suggested a document for adoption. We haven’t adopted it. Why remove Pirate_Joe from being Chair?
[9:37pm] sayyida: the company he works for offers to build a webpresence
[9:37pm] sayyida: they take ideals and make it a corprate existance
[9:37pm] sayyida: then charge you thousands to use it
[9:37pm] kusanagi: Where.. where did you find this?
[9:37pm] sayyida: they keep intillecutal  rights for what they built
[9:37pm] sayyida: IVE BEEN TRYING TO SAY THIS FOR MONTHS
[9:37pm] sayyida: It took me hours to figure it out
[9:38pm] kusanagi: And I believe in the thread, Andrew Norton (ktetch) did some OSINT about those companies..
[9:38pm] kusanagi: They all lead back to Johan.
[9:38pm] sayyida: I honestly thought when we were reached out to he was a retired man whos bored
[9:38pm] sayyida: no
[9:38pm] sayyida: when Pirate_Joe got a voice mail with a scam caller
[9:38pm] sayyida: SO VERY SIMILAR i did some digging
[9:39pm] sayyida: the companies he lists on his linked in are all the same
[9:39pm] bosun: So did K_Tech, no?
[9:39pm] kusanagi: Yeah, that was mentioned in the email thread.
[9:39pm] kusanagi: Yep, the OSINT.
[9:39pm] sayyida: they belong to this org that hosts seminars to do this
[9:39pm] kusanagi: Pardon my language.
[9:39pm] sayyida: the objection to Pirate_Joe s ideals is trivial
[9:39pm] kusanagi: What the FUCK.
[9:40pm] sayyida: compared to the CANCER we have right now
[9:40pm] sayyida: I am pleading with everyone to do some digging and look him up
[9:40pm] sayyida: see for yourself what we have found norton and I
[9:40pm] sayyida: its insane
[9:40pm] sayyida: and its dangerous
[9:40pm] sayyida: anything but piragte
[9:40pm] sayyida: pirate*
[9:40pm] sayyida: and IT WILL DESTROY WHO WE ARE
[9:41pm] K`Tetch joined the chat room.
[9:41pm] K`Tetch was promoted to operator by ChanServ.
[9:41pm] sayyida: THIS WILL and I mean WILL root the pirate party in its entirity
[9:41pm] kusanagi: And I will not stand for everything I worked on being destroyed like that.
[9:41pm] kusanagi: I will not.
[9:41pm] kusanagi: K`Tetch, Identify please.
[9:41pm] sayyida: he CAN NOT be allowed to be here with us and anything he has done MUST be rejected
[9:42pm] K`Tetch: Andrew "K`Tetch" norton, former USPP chair, former PPIhead, former PPUK Governor, Vice chair, PPGA
[9:42pm] kusanagi: And the board that he's on, unfortunately, must be voted in no confidence.
[9:42pm] K`Tetch: sorry i'm late, i was stuck on the other side of the split
[9:42pm] bosun: Yeah we saw
[9:43pm] sayyida: I motion for vote. This can not wait
[9:43pm] sayyida: I give the floor to the chair
[9:43pm] Pirate_Joe: Motion for Vote of No Confidence?
[9:43pm] OGPAF: still time for discussion and objections
[9:43pm] sayyida: yes please
[9:43pm] sayyida: I am asking for this
[9:43pm] kusanagi: Aye
[9:43pm] jokeefe: Motion of Vote of No Confidence in what?
[9:43pm] sayyida: your trust
[9:44pm] sayyida: I am asking to proceed with the vote of no confidence
[9:44pm] Pirate_Joe: Objections come that the nay part of the vote, OGPAF
[9:44pm] OGPAF: k
[9:44pm] Pirate_Joe: Motion of Vote of No Confidence for the board Jokeefe as it is now.
[9:44pm] Pirate_Joe: Anyone Second?
[9:44pm] sayyida: second
[9:44pm] Pirate_Joe: All in favor?
[9:44pm] sayyida: aye
[9:44pm] kusanagi: aye
[9:44pm] jokeefe: Why the whole board?
[9:44pm] K`Tetch was demoted from operator by ChanServ.
[9:45pm] Pirate_Joe: So we can revote a new board in sir.
[9:45pm] OGPAF: childish
[9:45pm] Pirate_Joe: It's how the bylaws are set up.
[9:45pm] Pirate_Joe: It's all or nothing.
[9:46pm] bosun: MA has not voted.
[9:46pm] Pirate_Joe: Jokeefe, please represent MA in the absence of Malt
[9:46pm] OGPAF: can't
[9:46pm] kusanagi: he can
[9:46pm] kusanagi: he's not chair.
[9:46pm] OGPAF: hes on the board
[9:47pm] kusanagi: all board positions save chair can vote in the absense of the rep from their state.
[9:47pm] OGPAF: and there is not a single member state in good standing
[9:47pm] kusanagi: Was there a vote about it?
[9:47pm] Pirate_Joe: MA is in good standing
[9:47pm] jokeefe: thinking
[9:47pm] bosun: In the absence of a state rep, a board member from the state can vot.
[9:47pm] OGPAF: don't sweat it Joe - they have worked hard at this
[9:48pm] kusanagi: That's in the bylaws, Johan. Did you neglect to read them fully?
[9:48pm] Pirate_Joe: K`Tetch, what is your vote?
[9:48pm] OGPAF: I quoted them to you - you are not in good standing
[9:48pm] sayyida: OGPAF: california has not recognized you
[9:48pm] kusanagi: You didn't read what I said then. No vote from the PNC to remove to probationary status.
[9:48pm] OGPAF: still on the board megan
[9:48pm] sayyida: and it was a mistake
[9:49pm] kusanagi: Being on the board doesnt' grant you a vote, though.
[9:49pm] Pirate_Joe: kusanagi is correct, NY is in good standing.
[9:49pm] sayyida: jokeefe: what is there to think about
[9:49pm] Pirate_Joe: kusanagi is also correct on the voting policies set forth by previous councils.
[9:49pm] sayyida: I laid out what he is, what he has done, and what he will do
[9:49pm] sayyida: and you need to think?
[9:49pm] OGPAF: while allowing no response
[9:49pm] jokeefe: Removing the whole board is the issue
[9:50pm] Pirate_Joe: OGPAF, you will have your chance to respond.
[9:50pm] K`Tetch: i'm actually just trying to get the ppga chair in here
[9:50pm] bosun: I suspect it will mostly be the same.
[9:50pm] OGPAF: after the vote?
[9:50pm] OGPAF: really?
[9:50pm] jokeefe: Pirate_Joe, please summarize the vote
[9:50pm] kusanagi: I can understand needing to think. This is a bomb that was just dropped that even I didn't know about.
[9:50pm] jokeefe: so far
[9:50pm] OGPAF: cause you havent been participating
[9:51pm] kusanagi: What Megan just said?
[9:51pm] kusanagi: About what you do?
[9:51pm] kusanagi: I'm pretty sure none of us knew.
[9:51pm] Pirate_Joe: 2 Ayes
[9:51pm] sayyida: hes not a lawyer even! GOD SAKES PEOPLE
[9:51pm] OGPAF: who said I was a lawyer?
[9:51pm] jokeefe: To be fair, OGPAF, a lot happens at the meeting without involving SAB.
[9:51pm] K`Tetch: Aye
[9:52pm] jokeefe: Thanks, Pirate_Joe.
[9:52pm] Pirate_Joe: If we are still waiting, lets give OGPAF a moment to defend his position.
[9:53pm] Pirate_Joe: OGPAF, you have the floor.
[9:53pm] bosun: Pausing a vote for a discussion is relly not Roberts
[9:53pm] OGPAF: I will stand by the volumous pages I have written. But...
[9:53pm] jokeefe: true
[9:53pm] sayyida: OGPAF:  at least 3 people and one of your sites that I ran across
[9:53pm] Pirate_Joe: I see, I made an error then
[9:53pm] OGPAF: Liz and Andrew didn't like my moniker from jump street
[9:53pm] OGPAF: I am not asking for it to be liked
[9:54pm] OGPAF: it comes from pre pirate party
[9:54pm] K`Tetch: I've never held with 'roberts', it's a stuffy rulebook for people who want to control a meeting to stiffle discussion
[9:54pm] OGPAF: the domain is so I could build the platform and demonstrate it
[9:54pm] • Pirate_Joe listens to K`Tetch and nods
[9:54pm] OGPAF: I couldn't care about roberts rules of order - but liz called em out so I stated clearly that the party should be accountable by its own rules
[9:55pm] OGPAF: I have been 100% transparent
[9:55pm] OGPAF: in writing
[9:55pm] OGPAF: and offered multiple invitations to see and contribute to the site
[9:55pm] kusanagi: I never once mentioned Roberts, actually. I referenced the bylaws.
[9:55pm] OGPAF: it is meant to be handed off anyway
[9:55pm] sayyida: when we buy it
[9:56pm] OGPAF: that's whay I asked to have the email for the webmaster be webmaster@ so I could just hand off all content and access
[9:56pm] kusanagi: But as Megan said, it looks like this is more meant for a shell company of yours to make a substantial amount of money.
[9:56pm] sayyida: if we don't its your intellectual property
[9:56pm] OGPAF: Megan and Joe have allowed me 1 15 minute call in 6 months
[9:56pm] kusanagi: Phone calls are not necessary to run the party.
[9:56pm] sayyida: in all honesty they should not exist but they do.
[9:57pm] sayyida: THERE IS NOTHING TO DEFEND
[9:57pm] sayyida: hes been transparent
[9:57pm] sayyida: i found the evidence
[9:57pm] sayyida: why is this even a debate
[9:57pm] OGPAF: my original reason for bringing it to you was because I would not give it to the Dems or the Reps - it is too powerful. I used the word powerful
[9:57pm] bosun: unless you record or confrence the call
[9:57pm] jokeefe: Massachusetts abstains. This issue was not brought before one of our weekly meetings to discuss and deliberate on a motion of this significance
[9:57pm] OGPAF: brick house is my company
[9:57pm] Pirate_Joe: Thank you Jokeefe
[9:57pm] OGPAF: level playing field is a sweet of SaaS and PaaS
[9:57pm] Pirate_Joe: Order Please
[9:57pm] kusanagi: Which I believe K`Tetch mentioned is a shell?
[9:57pm] OGPAF: Im  good
[9:58pm] kusanagi: Software as a Service. and Platform as a service.
[9:58pm] Pirate_Joe: MA vote has been cast
[9:58pm] kusanagi: Use the full terms.
[9:58pm] Pirate_Joe: 2 Ayes and 1 Abstain
[9:58pm] jokeefe: Is GA in good standing?
[9:58pm] OGPAF: Nay
[9:58pm] K`Tetch: it's actually not very powerful, it's rather low quality, and quite easily broken. It's suited more for MLM companies
[9:58pm] K`Tetch: jokeefe - I have received no notification that its status was changed
[9:58pm] kusanagi: Objection to Johan's vote - not a member of CAPP, nor given a vote due to board position.